Atomic Ratio and Ratio of Mole Fractions

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the relationship between the atomic ratio of carbon to oxygen in a chemical reaction involving carbon dioxide (CO2) and its decomposition products. Participants explore how this atomic ratio can be expressed in terms of mole fractions at equilibrium, with a focus on the mathematical proof of this relationship.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Homework-related

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents a reaction and proposes that the ratio of carbon atoms to oxygen atoms can be expressed through mole fractions, suggesting a mathematical relationship that needs to be proven.
  • Another participant questions the initial atomic ratio, suggesting that the ratio should be 2:1 based on the initial presence of CO2.
  • A third participant prompts a consideration of stoichiometry in the reaction, indicating that it may be necessary to understand the number of atoms in one mole of CO2 to clarify the atomic ratios.
  • Further discussion includes a participant attempting to calculate the total number of atoms in one mole of CO2 and expressing uncertainty about how to apply stoichiometry to the problem.
  • One participant acknowledges a mistake in their previous statement and reflects on the need for a more general proof involving dummy variables for species names.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the correct atomic ratio of carbon to oxygen, with some supporting the 1:2 ratio and others suggesting it should be 2:1 based on initial conditions. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the correct interpretation and application of stoichiometry in this context.

Contextual Notes

Participants note the importance of stoichiometry in determining the amounts of reactants and products, but there are unresolved questions about how to effectively incorporate this into their calculations. There is also a lack of consensus on the correct atomic ratio based on the initial conditions of the reaction.

Saladsamurai
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Homework Statement



Hi folks! :smile:

This is just a conceptual question that has arisen during some reading. At one point the author states that for the reaction:

CO_2 \leftrightharpoons X_{CO}CO + X_{CO_2}CO_2 + X_{O_2}O_2

where X is the mole fraction of each component at equilibrium, that we can relate the ratio of oxygen atoms:carbon atoms to the mile fractions by the following.

\frac{\text{No. carbon atoms}}{\text{No. oxygen atoms}}=\frac{1}{2}=\frac{X_{CO}+X_{CO_2}}{X_{CO}+X_{CO_2}+X_{O_2}}Now I can see that what they have essentially written is

\frac{\text{No. oxygen atoms}}{\text{No. carbon atoms}}<br /> =<br /> \frac{\text{mole fractions of everything with carbon in it}}{\Sum\text{mole fractions of everything with oxygen in it}}

Now intuitively this makes sense to me and I can dig it! :smile: BUT, I would like to make the math work to prove it to myself, but I cannot seem to figure it out :confused:

The Attempt at a Solution



This is what I did to try to "prove" it. Since Xi = Ni / NT where NT is the total number of moles in the mixture at equilibrium, I can write

<br /> \frac{X_{CO}+X_{CO_2}}{X_{CO}+X_{CO_2}+X_{O_2}} = <br /> \frac{N_{CO}/N_T+N_{CO_2}/N_T}{N_{CO}/N_T+N_{CO_2}/N_T+N_{O_2}/N_T} =<br /> \frac{N_{CO}+N_{CO_2}}{N_{CO}+N_{CO_2}+N_{O_2}} <br />I am just not sure where to go from here? I thought about writing each Ni as something like: NCO = (NC + NO), but did not get too far.

Any thoughts?
 
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Saladsamurai said:
\frac{\text{No. oxygen atoms}}{\text{No. carbon atoms}}=\frac{1}{2}

And not

\frac{\text{No. oxygen atoms}}{\text{No. carbon atoms}}=\frac{2}{1}?

After all that's the ratio in CO2 which is present initially.

I will try to get back to the problem, have to do something else at the moment. Seems like your approach should lead to the correct conclusion.
 
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How many atoms of everything in 1 mole of CO2?

And you probably need to use stoichiometry of the reaction:

2CO2 <-> 2CO + O2
 
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Borek said:
And not

\frac{\text{No. oxygen atoms}}{\text{No. carbon atoms}}=\frac{2}{1}?

After all that's the ratio in CO2 which is present initially.

I will try to get back to the problem, have to do something else at the moment. Seems like your approach should lead to the correct conclusion.

--
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pH calculator, stoichiometry calculator

Yes Borek; my mistake. I have edited to reflect the correct problem.

Borek said:
How many atoms of everything in 1 mole of CO2?

And you probably need to use stoichiometry of the reaction:

2CO2 <-> 2CO + O2

--
ChemBuddy chemical calculators - buffer calculator, stoichiometry calculator
www.ph-meter.info - ph meter, ph electrode


So if me let ai be the number of atoms in the ith species and NAis Avagadros number, we have for 1 mole of CO2:

a_{\text{1mol}_{CO_2}} = \text{1mol}_C*N_A\frac{\text{atoms}} + 2*\text{1mol}_O*N_A\frac{\text{atoms}}{\text{mol}} = 3N_A \, \text{atoms}

I am can presumably do this for all remaining species and find that the ration is indeed 1/2. Now that I think about it, if I really wanted to *prove* it in general I should have let the subscripts be dummy variables as well as the species names...but that is for another time. When I get the time I will do this on paper since I am still not sure where I would use the stoichiometry of the rxn.
 
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Saladsamurai said:
I am still not sure where I would use the stoichiometry of the rxn.

For example - to combine amounts of CO and O2 present. If you assume initially there was CO2 only, you can also calculate XCO2 knowing XCO (or XO2)
 
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