-b.2.2.33 - Homogeneous first order ODEs, direction fields and integral curves

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around solving a homogeneous first-order ordinary differential equation (ODE) given by the equation $\dfrac{dy}{dx}=\dfrac{4y-3x}{2x-y}$. Participants explore methods for separating variables, transforming the equation, and integrating to find solutions. The conversation includes technical steps, corrections, and inquiries about the process of solving the ODE.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Exploratory
  • Homework-related

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests using a substitution $u = \frac{y}{x}$ to separate variables.
  • Another participant corrects an earlier post by noting that the "4" in the equation was dropped and provides a revised form of the equation.
  • There are multiple transformations of the equation discussed, including dividing by $x$ and expressing $\frac{dy}{dx}$ in terms of $u$.
  • Participants engage in checking algebraic manipulations, particularly around the expression $x\frac{du}{dx} + u$ and its equivalence to $\frac{4u - 3}{2 - u}$.
  • There is a discussion about integrating both sides of the equation and the advantages of using a factored denominator in partial fractions.
  • One participant expresses confusion about a specific algebraic step, prompting further clarification from others.
  • Another participant shares a link to a slope field related to the problem, suggesting visual exploration of solutions.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the steps to transform the equation and the methods for integration, but there are points of confusion and correction regarding specific algebraic manipulations. The discussion remains unresolved in terms of final solutions and interpretations of the results.

Contextual Notes

Some participants express uncertainty about specific algebraic steps and the implications of the transformations used. There are also references to the need for practice with word problems, indicating a broader context of learning and application.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be useful for students studying differential equations, particularly those interested in methods for solving homogeneous first-order ODEs and the application of substitution techniques.

karush
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$\dfrac{dy}{dx}=\dfrac{4y-3x}{2x-y}$
OK I assume u subst so we can separate
$$\dfrac{dy}{dx}= \dfrac{y/x-3}{2-y/x} $$
 
Last edited:
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You have dropped the "4"!

The equation $\frac{dy}{dx}= \frac{4y- 3x}{2x- y}$.

Divide both numerator and denominator by x:
$\frac{dy}{dx}= \frac{4\frac{y}{x}- 2}{2- \frac{y}{x}}$.

Now let $u= \frac{y}{x}$ so that $y= xu$ and $\frac{dy}{dx}= x\frac{du}{dx}+ u$.
The equation becomex $x\frac{du}{dx}+ u= \frac{4u- 2}{2- u}$.
 
$\dfrac{dy}{dx} = \dfrac{4 \frac{y}{x} - {\color{red}3}}{2 - \frac{y}{x}}$
 
Yes, thanks.
 
$x\dfrac{du}{dx}+ u= \dfrac{4u- 3}{2- u}$
so
$x\frac{du}{dx}
=\dfrac{4u- 3}{2- u}-u\dfrac{2-u}{2-u}
=\dfrac{4u-3-2u+u^2}{2-u}
=\dfrac{u^2- 2u-3}{2-u}$
check point
 
$\displaystyle\dfrac{u^2- 2u-3}{2-u}=-\dfrac{(u-2)(u+1)}{u-2} =1¬u$
 
Last edited:
karush said:
$\displaystyle\dfrac{u^2- 2u-3}{2-u}=-\dfrac{(u-2)(u+1)}{u-2} =1¬u$

$\displaystyle\dfrac{u^2 {\color{red}+} 2u-3}{2-u}=-\dfrac{(u {\color{red}+3})(u {\color{red}-1})}{u-2}$
 
2020_05_17_12.51.52~2.jpg

this is the book answe... but steps to get there??
 
karush said:
$x\dfrac{du}{dx}+ u= \dfrac{4u- 3}{2- u}$
so
$x\frac{du}{dx}
=\dfrac{4u- 3}{2- u}-u\dfrac{2-u}{2-u}
=\dfrac{4u-3-2u+u^2}{2-u}
=\dfrac{u^2- 2u-3}{2-u}$
check point

how did you get +2u
 
  • #10
karush said:
$x\dfrac{du}{dx}+ u= \dfrac{4u- 3}{2- u}$
so
$x\frac{du}{dx}
=\dfrac{4u- 3}{2- u}-u\dfrac{2-u}{2-u}
=\dfrac{{\color{red}4u}-3 {\color{red}-2u}+u^2}{2-u}
=\dfrac{u^2- 2u-3}{2-u}$
check point
karush said:
how did you get +2u

$\color{red}4u - 2u = +2u$
 
  • #11
OK. I recant... then
$\dfrac{x}{dx} =\dfrac{u^2+2u-3}{2- u} \dfrac{1}{du} $.
or.
$\dfrac{1}{x} dx=\dfrac{2-u}{x^2 +2u-3} du$
 
Last edited:
  • #12
$\dfrac{2-u}{(u+3)(u-1)} \, du = \dfrac{dx}{x}$

what next?
 
  • #13
integrate both sides
but what is the advantage of the factored denominator?
2020_05_17_15.07.34~2.jpg

RHS
 
Last edited:
  • #14
karush said:
integrate both sides
but what is the advantage of the factored denominator?
https://www.physicsforums.com/attachments/10197
wow

method of partial fractions

$\dfrac{2-u}{(u+3)(u-1)} \, du = \dfrac{dx}{x}$

$\dfrac{2-u}{(u+3)(u-1)} = \dfrac{A}{u+3} + \dfrac{B}{u-1}$

$2-u = A(u-1) + B(u+3)$

$u = 1 \implies B = \dfrac{1}{4}$, $u = -3 \implies A = -\dfrac{5}{4}$

$\dfrac{1}{u-1} - \dfrac{5}{u+3} \, du = \dfrac{4}{x} \, dx$

$\ln\left|\dfrac{u-1}{(u+3)^5}\right| = 4\ln|cx|$

$\left| \dfrac{\frac{y}{x} - 1}{\left(\frac{y}{x}+3\right)^5} \right| = cx^4$

$\left|\frac{y}{x} - 1\right| = cx^4\left|\frac{y}{x} +3\right|^5$

$x \left|\frac{y}{x} - 1\right| = cx^5\left|\frac{y}{x} +3 \right|^5$

$\left| y-x \right| = c\left|y +3x \right|^5$
 
  • #15
OMG...
OK I see how this works just kinda blind first time through
 
Last edited:
  • #16
again thank you so much.
this the last problem on this section. the next one is all. word problems which I hesitate to pursue without more practice
 
  • #17
Isn't "practice" the purpose of the problems?
 
  • #18
depends which side of 18 you are on
 

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