Background required for general relativity

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the background knowledge required for studying general relativity (GR), including both mathematical and physical prerequisites. Participants explore various resources and approaches to understanding GR, as well as differing opinions on the necessity of certain mathematical concepts.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Homework-related

Main Points Raised

  • One participant mentions completing college-level special relativity and inquires about additional knowledge needed for GR.
  • Another participant suggests that Newtonian mechanics is essential, as GR builds upon these concepts, and emphasizes the importance of differential geometry, including tensors and manifolds.
  • Some participants propose that one can read expert interpretations of GR without mastering all the mathematics initially, providing various resources and texts.
  • One participant highlights the major mathematical requirement of differential geometry for understanding GR.
  • A participant expresses a desire for recommendations on mathematical texts to prepare for GR, indicating a lack of sophistication in the required mathematics.
  • Another participant notes that while understanding the full Einstein Field Equations (EFE) is complex, one can learn about specific solutions without fully grasping the underlying mathematics.
  • There is a disagreement regarding the approach to learning GR, with one participant advocating for a systematic study of the mathematics rather than accepting results "on faith."
  • One participant questions the notion of GR being background-independent, suggesting a need for clarification on this concept.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a range of views on the necessary background for studying GR, with no consensus on whether one should prioritize mathematical rigor or can start with interpretations. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the best approach to learning GR.

Contextual Notes

Some participants mention specific mathematical prerequisites and resources, but there is uncertainty about the sufficiency of these recommendations for all learners. The discussion reflects varying levels of mathematical preparedness among participants.

khil_phys
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I've completed college-level special relativity, which includes length contraction, time dilation, the Lorentz transformations, momentum and energy. What additional mathematical and physical knowledge do I need for starting to read general relativity?
 
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Newtonian mechanics is more or less required, as GR extends the Newtonian ideas. Mathematical prerequisites are the usual analysis, linear algebra and stuff like that. The main language of GR is differential geometry (tensors, manifolds, etc.)

You could take a look at Sean Carroll's notes about GR to get an idea :)
 
Lots of people have interpretated the complicated/detailed mathematics of general relativity so you can read those expert interpretations instead of studying all the precise math to get started.



Here are some sources I've found helpful:

Carroll’s lecture notes:http://xxx.lanl.gov/abs/gr-qc/9712019
http://www.mathpages.com/rr/rrtoc.htm
http://www.lightandmatter.com/html_books/genrel/

You can also check online for MIT and Caltech lectures.

For some advanced stuff introductions, take a look at some diagrams in wikipedia for Schwarzschild,Kerr and Rindler coordinates/metrics.

Inexpensive books:
An introductory paperback, half special and half general relativity is RELATIVITY SIMPLY EXPLAINED by Martin Gardner...no math, maybe too simple if you have studied special relativity in college.

A paperback book I found useful, and it goes into math in later sections, is Peter Bergmann THEORY OF RELATIVITY...Bergmann was a student of Einstein...and also by him
THE RIDDLE OF GRAVITATION which is excellent...and has a bit on quantum mechanics.

An advanced book is GENERAL RELATIVITY,ASTROPHYSICS AND COSMOLOGY by Raychaudhuri...it's pretty difficult, a graduate level study..all math...too much for me.

finally: read discussions in these forums...keep notes of things that interest you.
 
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The major additional mathematics needed is differential geometry.

http://people.hofstra.edu/Stefan_Waner/diff_geom/tc.html
 
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Naty1 said:
An introductory paperback, half special and half general relativity is RELATIVITY SIMPLY EXPLAINED by Martin Gardner...no math, maybe too simple if you have studied special relativity in college.

I'm not yet in college, so there's no question of someone having taught it to me. I studied it from college texts, and picked it up nicely.

But, I do lack the mathematical sophistication for GR. Can you suggest me some math texts for it, so that I can get started?
 
Understanding the full Einstein Field Equations (EFE) requires quite a lot more work. However, you can still learn a lot without this full machinery if you take the solutions to the full EFE for the spherically symmetric case "on faith". See for example the texts:

Taylor & Wheeler, Exploring Black Holes
Hartle, Gravity
 
"On faith" is not where the fun lies. I would like to learn it systematically, without skipping out the math.
 
khil_phys said:
"On faith" is not where the fun lies. I would like to learn it systematically, without skipping out the math.

You could, just like Einstein, start with the equivalence principle and basic mathematics, and verify what has been deduced from that. Perhaps you would not call that "systematic", but it's certainly not "on faith". :smile:
 
I always thought that GR was background-independent...
 

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