Basic Math Problem of the Week 10/28/2017

  • Context: Challenge 
  • Thread starter Thread starter PF PotW Robot
  • Start date Start date
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around a basic math problem involving a quadratic equation and the estimation of its roots. Participants are tasked with proving inequalities related to the parameter \( k \) in the equation \( x^2 - kx + 2n = 0 \), where one root is defined as a sum of reciprocals of square roots. The scope includes mathematical reasoning and exploration of different solution methods.

Discussion Character

  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Participants are invited to find various methods to solve the problem and check each other's solutions.
  • A hint suggests using the distance between the minimum and the zero of the parabola for estimation.
  • One participant proposes a specific approach to prove the right part of the inequality, indicating a need for a lower limit on the denominator in a fraction.
  • Another participant provides a detailed algebraic manipulation to establish conditions on \( \delta_n \) for the inequality to hold, suggesting that \( \delta_n \leq \sqrt{n} \) is necessary.
  • Concerns are raised about the validity of the approach for \( n > 1 \), with a participant expressing uncertainty about providing a rigorous proof for that case.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the approach to proving the inequalities, with some proposing methods while others challenge or refine those methods. No consensus is reached on a definitive solution or proof.

Contextual Notes

Participants note the complexity of the problem and the need for careful consideration of conditions and limits in their proofs. There are unresolved aspects regarding the behavior of \( \delta_n \) for integers \( n > 1 \).

PF PotW Robot
Here is this week's basic math problem. We have several members who will check solutions, but we also welcome the community in general to step in. We also encourage finding different methods to the solution. If one has been found, see if there is another way. Using spoiler tags is optional. Occasionally there will be prizes for extraordinary or clever methods.

One of the roots of the quadratic equation ##x^2-kx+2n=0## is equals to ##\dfrac{1}{\sqrt{1}}+\dfrac{1}{\sqrt{2}}+\cdots+\dfrac{1}{\sqrt{n}}##, where ##n## is a positive integer.

Prove that ##2\sqrt{2n} \le k \le 3\sqrt{n}##

(PotW thanks to our friends at http://www.mathhelpboards.com/)
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: Charles Link
Physics news on Phys.org
PotW Tobor said:
One of the roots of the quadratic equation ##x^2-kx+2n=0## is equals to ##\dfrac{1}{\sqrt{1}}+\dfrac{1}{\sqrt{2}}+\cdots+\dfrac{1}{\sqrt{n}}##, where ##n## is a positive integer.

Prove that ##2\sqrt{2n} \le k \le 3\sqrt{n}##

(PotW thanks to our friends at http://www.mathhelpboards.com/)
Hint for the difficult part: Try to use the distance between the minimum and the zero of the parabola, ##S_n := \dfrac{1}{\sqrt{1}}+\dfrac{1}{\sqrt{2}}+\cdots+\dfrac{1}{\sqrt{n}}## for the estimation.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: Greg Bernhardt
Just an idea for the right part of the inequality to be proved
Let ##x_1## and ##x_2## be the roots of the given quadratic equation with ##x_1 =
\dfrac{1}{\sqrt{1}}+\dfrac{1}{\sqrt{2}}+\cdots+\dfrac{1}{\sqrt{n}}##
Using Vieta's formulas for quadratics (##ax^2 + bx + c = 0##) and applying to the given quadratic equation we have that ##x_1 + x_2 = -\frac{b}{a} = k## and ##x_1\cdot x_2 = \frac{c}{a} = 2n##. So, ##x_2 = \frac{2n}{\dfrac{1}{\sqrt{1}}+\dfrac{1}{\sqrt{2}}+\cdots+\dfrac{1}{\sqrt{n}}}##. Now, going to the inequality we're asked to prove we substitute ##k## for the sum of the two roots ##x_1 + x_2## and we have
##\dfrac{1}{\sqrt{1}}+\dfrac{1}{\sqrt{2}}+\cdots+\dfrac{1}{\sqrt{n}} + \frac{2n}{\dfrac{1}{\sqrt{1}}+\dfrac{1}{\sqrt{2}}+\cdots+\dfrac{1}{\sqrt{n}}} \leq 3\sqrt{n}##.
Now, to prove this right part of the asked inequality, we utilize that ##\dfrac{1}{\sqrt{1}}+\dfrac{1}{\sqrt{2}}+\cdots+\dfrac{1}{\sqrt{n}} < 2\sqrt{n}##. This can be easily proved using induction, so I omit the proof here. Returning to the right part of the asked inequality and doing the math we have

##\frac{(\dfrac{1}{\sqrt{1}}+\dfrac{1}{\sqrt{2}}+\cdots+\dfrac{1}{\sqrt{n}})^2 + 2n}{\dfrac{1}{\sqrt{1}}+\dfrac{1}{\sqrt{2}}+\cdots+\dfrac{1}{\sqrt{n}}} \leq \frac{6n}{2\sqrt{n}} = 3\sqrt{n}## which is what is asked in the right part.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: Charles Link, fresh_42 and Greg Bernhardt
An excellent solution by @QuantumQuest ! I would like to make one minor correction though. In proving that ## S_n+\frac{2n}{ S_n} \leq 3 \sqrt{n} ##, I think in writing it as a fraction, you would need to have a lower limit on the denominator (rather than an upper limit) to prove the last "less than or equal" inequality. ## \\ ## Instead, let ## S_n=2 \sqrt{n}-\delta_n ##. Also let ## A=\sqrt{n} ##. Then we need to find the conditions on ## \delta_n ## so that ## 2A-\delta_n+\frac{2A^2}{2A-\delta_n} \leq 3 A ##. Multiplying through on both sides by ## 2A-\delta_n ##, we get ## (2A-\delta_n)^2+2A^2 \leq (3A)(2A-\delta_n) ##. The result after a little algebra ( multiplying out, and subtracting, etc.) is ## \delta_n \leq A ##. Thereby ## \delta_n \leq \sqrt{n} ## is the requirement for the inequality to hold. For the series ## S_n ##, when ## n=1 ##, ## \delta_1=1 ## . For integers ## n>1 ##, it looks as if it will clearly be the case that ## \delta_n <\sqrt{n} ##, but on this part (for ## n>1 ##), I will forego a rigorous proof.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: QuantumQuest and Greg Bernhardt

Similar threads

  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
2K
  • · Replies 21 ·
Replies
21
Views
4K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
2K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 11 ·
Replies
11
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K