Beats: frequency of resulting wave vs. beats frequency

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concepts of beats frequency and the frequency of the resulting wave from the interference of two sound waves. Participants explore the theoretical distinctions between these frequencies and their practical implications, particularly in relation to measurement limitations of sound waves.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants state that the beats frequency is given by $$\nu=|f_1-f_2|$$, while the frequency of the resulting wave is $$f_{resulting}=\frac{f_1+f_2}{2}$$.
  • It is noted that $$f_{resulting}$$ is always greater than $$\nu$$.
  • One participant expresses uncertainty about the practical implications of these frequencies when considering measurement instruments with specific frequency limits.
  • Another participant suggests that the perception of beats may be influenced by the ear's response to sound waves, indicating that the ear may not accurately measure the beat frequency due to phase inversion.
  • There is a reference to an analogy with AM receivers, suggesting that such instruments do not need to respond to the difference frequency to measure the audio signals effectively.
  • Mathematical identities involving sine functions are presented, but their relevance to the discussion remains unclear.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the theoretical definitions of beats frequency and resulting wave frequency, but there are differing views on the practical implications and measurement challenges. The discussion remains unresolved regarding how specific instruments would respond in certain scenarios.

Contextual Notes

Participants express uncertainty about the conditions under which measurement instruments would determine the upper or lower limits for frequencies, highlighting potential limitations in the understanding of practical applications.

Soren4
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The beats frequency heard from the interference of two sound waves with frequencies ##f_1## and ##f_2## is $$\nu=|f_1-f_2|$$

Nevertheless the frequency of the resulting wave is not ##\nu## but the mean value of the two frequencies
$$f_{resulting}=\frac{f_1+f_2}{2}$$

As far as I understood ##\nu## is the frequency at which the maxima of intensity are heard, while ##f_{resulting}## is indeed the frequency of the resulting wave.

In particular I can notice that ##f_{resulting} > \nu## always.

The distincion between the two is clear in theory, but in practice I still have doubts.

Suppose to have an instrument that can measure sound waves iff the frequency is, say, bigger than ##f_{min}## and lower than ##f_{max}##.

Now suppose that two waves interefere in a way such that ##f_{resulting} > f_{min}## but ##\nu <f_{min}##, or, in a way such that ##\nu < f_{max}## but ##f_{resulting} > f_{max}##.

What does the instrument measure in these cases?

Which of the two frequencies "determine" the upper of lower limits for the frequency that can be measured by such instrument?
 
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Soren4 said:
The beats frequency heard from the interference of two sound waves with frequencies ##f_1## and ##f_2## is $$\nu=|f_1-f_2|$$

Nevertheless the frequency of the resulting wave is not ##\nu## but the mean value of the two frequencies
$$f_{resulting}=\frac{f_1+f_2}{2}$$

As far as I understood ##\nu## is the frequency at which the maxima of intensity are heard, while ##f_{resulting}## is indeed the frequency of the resulting wave.

In particular I can notice that ##f_{resulting} > \nu## always.

The distincion between the two is clear in theory, but in practice I still have doubts.
This link says it all, I think.
The reason for hearing a beat of twice the frequency that you would expect is that you hear the two peaks in loudness and your ear ignores the phase inversion of the sum at frequency (f1+f2)/2
The ear is an imperfect instrument for measuring what you present it with and that accounts for the apparent paradox, I think.
The instrument that you describe would be like an AM receiver, I think and, to measure the beat, it would need a wide enough bandwidth to include the two input tones. But, as with an AM receiver, it only needs to admit those tones and needs no response at the difference frequency - to take an extreme case, a 1MHz AM receiver doesn't need any response to audio signals in its antenna input in order to receive audio signals carried on the carrier.
 
\sin(x)+\sin(y)=2\sin(\frac{x+y}{2})\cos(\frac{x-y}{2})
Let x=\omega_{1}t and y=\omega_{2}t.
 
Svein said:
\sin(x)+\sin(y)=2\sin(\frac{x+y}{2})\cos(\frac{x-y}{2})
Let x=\omega_{1}t and y=\omega_{2}t.
Did you want to add some more? :smile:
 

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