Blood flow and pressure ( and velocity)

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the relationship between blood flow velocity and pressure within arteries, particularly in the context of Bernoulli's principle. Participants explore theoretical explanations and intuitive understandings of how changes in flow velocity affect pressure, with references to conservation of energy and fluid dynamics concepts.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions why pressure decreases when blood flow velocity increases in arteries, referencing Bernoulli's principle.
  • Another participant explains that Bernoulli's principle indicates total pressure remains constant along a streamline, where an increase in dynamic pressure (due to increased velocity) results in a decrease in static pressure.
  • A participant seeks a theoretical reason for the observed relationship between pressure and velocity.
  • One participant provides an analogy involving velocity vectors to illustrate how increased flow velocity leads to reduced pressure against the artery wall.
  • Another participant reiterates the vector explanation and requests literature references to support the claims made.
  • A participant expresses uncertainty about the correctness of the vector-based explanation and emphasizes that the Bernoulli equation, based on Newton's 2nd law, suggests higher pressure upstream when velocity is higher downstream.
  • Another participant agrees with the need for higher upstream pressure to accelerate fluid and suggests that their previous statements may have been confusing.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the relationship between pressure and flow velocity, with some supporting the vector explanation and others challenging its correctness based on Bernoulli's equation. The discussion remains unresolved with multiple competing perspectives.

Contextual Notes

Some participants reference the need for literature to support their claims, indicating a desire for more rigorous backing for the intuitive explanations provided. There is also mention of neglecting viscous drag in the context of fluid acceleration.

kay
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so i was reading on some applications of bernoulli's principle and i encountered a paragraph in which it was stated that 'the speed of the flow of blood in this region ( the region inside the artery) is raised which lower the pressure inside the artery and it may collapse due to external pressure. '
Now my doubt is that why does pressure decrease? When the velocity of blood flow increases inside the artery?
 
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Bernoulli's principle is basically conservation of energy, and says that the total pressure remains constant on a streamline. The total pressure is the static pressure plus the dynamic pressure. Dynamic pressure is 'velocity pressure': P=p_s + \frac{1}{2}\rho V^2=\textrm{const}.
So if the velocity goes up (because for instance the flow-through area of the artery is decreasing), the dynamic pressure goes up and therefore the static pressure goes down.

There is a derivation based on conservation of energy here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernoulli's_principle#Derivations_of_Bernoulli_equation
 
Can you give me the theoretical reason for it?
 
Imagine billions of particles with velocity vectors. Each velocity vector is the sum of a velocity component toward the artery wall and a velocity component parallel to the wall. The component that is pushing into the wall contributes to the pressure against the artery wall. The component parallel to the wall contributes to the flow of the fluid. The Pythagorean theorem tells how to divide the vector (hypotenuse) between velocity toward the wall and velocity in the direction of flow. As the fluid flow increases, the velocity vectors are tilting more in the direction of flow and less toward the artery wall. So more flow velocity => less pressure against the artery wall.
 
FactChecker said:
Imagine billions of particles with velocity vectors. Each velocity vector is the sum of a velocity component toward the artery wall and a velocity component parallel to the wall. The component that is pushing into the wall contributes to the pressure against the artery wall. The component parallel to the wall contributes to the flow of the fluid. The Pythagorean theorem tells how to divide the vector (hypotenuse) between velocity toward the wall and velocity in the direction of flow. As the fluid flow increases, the velocity vectors are tilting more in the direction of flow and less toward the artery wall. So more flow velocity => less pressure against the artery wall.
If you have a literature reference for this explanation, please provide it.
 
Chestermiller said:
If you have a literature reference for this explanation, please provide it.
I don't know a reference. I just wanted to give some intuition as to why there was a trade off between pressure and flow velocity squared.
constant energy =~ Vtotal2 = Vtoward wall2 + Vparallel to wall2 =~ Pressure + 1/2 ρ Vparallel to wall2
The references I have seen seemed more rigorous, but less intuitive to me.
 
FactChecker said:
I don't know a reference. I just wanted to give some intuition as to why there was a trade off between pressure and flow velocity squared.
constant energy =~ Vtotal2 = Vtoward wall2 + Vparallel to wall2 =~ Pressure + 1/2 ρ Vparallel to wall2
The references I have seen seemed more rigorous, but less intuitive to me.
The reason I asked for a reference is that this doesn't seem correct (to me). The Bernoulli equation, which is what Bigfoot was alluding to in post #2 and you were alluding to in this quote, is based on Newton's 2nd law. If the velocity is higher downstream than upstream, the pressure must be higher upstream than downstream in order to accelerate the fluid. (This, of course, neglects viscous drag).

Chet
 
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Chestermiller said:
If the velocity is higher downstream than upstream, the pressure must be higher upstream than downstream in order to accelerate the fluid.
I agree. I must have said something confusing in my earlier post if I implied the opposite. And your way of looking at it may be the most intuitive of all.
To continue your logic: If the velocity slows down farther downstream, there must be some higher pressure downstream that slowed it down. So the trade-off between flow velocity and pressure is intuitive in all cases.
 
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