Bode plot and stability margins

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The discussion revolves around using Bode plots to determine stability margins and the critical gain, k_cu, without relying on Ziegler-Nichols tuning. The user has calculated k_cu as 0.5 and identified a controller gain, k_c, of -0.3 that leads to a diverging output. They express confusion about how to utilize the stability margins indicated on the Bode plots to find k_cu, particularly in relation to the gain and phase margins. The phase margin is noted as -31.8 degrees at 0.777 rad/s, and the gain margin is -6.21 dB at 0.633 rad/s, suggesting that reducing gain will shift the crossover frequency and increase the phase margin. Ultimately, the user concludes that the goal is to find the value that results in zero phase and gain margin.
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Homework Statement


upload_2015-11-14_17-45-51.png


Homework Equations

The Attempt at a Solution


Hello, In part (b), I found ##k_{cu} = 0.5##. I found in part (d) a controller gain of ##k_{c} = -0.3## yielded a diverging output. Here are the bode plots for parts (a),(c), and (d). I don't understand how I should use the "stability margins" which are the dots on the plots for part (e) in order to determine ##k_{cu}## without ziegler-nichols tuning.
upload_2015-11-14_17-46-59.png
 
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Maylis - at first, are you familiar with the definition of stabiliy margins (phase resp. gain margin) ?
 
I know the gain margin is the inverse of the amplitude ratio at the crossover frequency (the frequency at which ##\phi = -180^{o}##), ##GM = 1/AR_{co}## and the phase margin is the phase angle at which ##g_{c}g_{p} = 1##. ##PM = \phi_{pm} + 180^{o}##

Admittedly I hadn't read this section in my textbook prior to posting this question, so I see I can use those dots to identify my crossover frequency and gain margins.

I think it doesn't make any sense to use the bode plot of ##g_{cu}*g_{p}## to find ##k_{cu}##, I should use the bode plot of ##g_{p}## and use those stability margins to determine ##k_{cu}##? And compare with what I determined it to be by playing with simulink to be ##k_{cu} = 0.5##

Here is a bode plot for just the transfer function ##g_{p}##
upload_2015-11-15_19-49-23.png

The phase margin is -31.8 degrees at 0.777 rad/s, and the gain margin is -6.21 dB at 0.633 rad/s. With this information, I'm not sure how to determine what ##k_{cu}## should be.
 
Last edited:
If you reduce the gain the cross-over frequency will be shifted to smaller values (the phase response remains the same).
And - as a consequence - the phase margin will increase. I think, that`s what the green curve in the first diagram shows.
 
How can I use this information to find ##k_{cu}##?
 
Never mind, you just find the value that will give zero phase and gain margin
 

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