Boy, 8, shoots himself to death at Mass. gun show

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Astronuc said:
There is no worse punishment for a parent. :frown:

I don't know. I wouldn't object if he was further punished.

The gun show too.

Put a few heads on poles outside as an example that people don't forget.
 
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True story: When I was around 8, I played in the my neighborhood with some friends. We would play with toy guns all the time. One day I had a toy shotgun and the mailman came by and I started fake shooting at him. Apparently it scared the crap of of him and he bolted away. An hour later a cop came around and said someone was pointing a shot gun at him. Being a young kid I told the cop it was a kid down the street. Anyway. I don't blame the mailman at all. Looking back, the shotgun was fairly life like. I certainly was not a violent kid, if not a bit of a pansy and I ended up growing up non-violent too. But I had no idea the ramifications of pointing a fake gun at someone would have. I blame my friends parents for having the toy guns around. There was no need for them, we could have easily found other things to do.
 
I'm Canadian. Never shot a gun, never seen a gun being shot, and never seen a gun in public other than on a police officer.
 
The tragedy is that this "accident" was thoroughly preventable through a bit of common sense. A 9mm round does not have much recoil, BUT the combined effect of a burst of 9mm rounds going off in quick succession could challenge the hand strength of a small-statured adult if they are not prepared for the muzzle climb, especially with a light gun like an Uzi. Add in the fact that the grips are sized for adult hands, and the "accident" was a high-probability event.
 
I've never even seen a police officer with a gun. We have sticks :smile:
 
Astronuc said:
Certainly letting children 'play' with guns would be reckless and irresponsible. As far as I know, most adults with guns do not let children play with them. On the other hand, children do play with toy guns, water pistols, cap guns, and there is some theory that letting children play with toy weapons is not conducive to a more peaceful society.

Yes, that what I was thinking. These tiny things determine the behavior and actions of the future society.

That also includes violent games, movies etc ..
In old days, no one really cared what children do, but now I see (at least in my country)
that they try to not to expose children to any violence or weapons, rather instill peace/morals into their minds through all those children movies or cartoons. That's why I really love Hayao Miyazaki movies. They are simple yet deliver very powerful meanings.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hayao_Miyazaki#Themes_and_devices
 
rootX said:
Yes, that what I was thinking. These tiny things determine the behavior and actions of the future society.

That also includes violent games, movies etc ..
In old days, no one really cared what children do, but now I see (at least in my country)
that they try to not to expose children to any violence or weapons, rather instill peace/morals into their minds through all those children movies or cartoons. That's why I really love Hayao Miyazaki movies. They are simple yet deliver very powerful meanings.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hayao_Miyazaki#Themes_and_devices

I understand your line of reasoning but children (particularly boys) will play war/cowboys&indians/pirates etc. and fashion sticks to use as guns, knives, and swords. Adults can discourage this but it really is contrary to their nature. Exposure to the real thing is beneficial when done correctly. But, exposure does not need to include fully automatic weapons in order to teach proper respect to firearms.
 
rootX said:
Why should a 8 year old get hands on any weapon regardless of an adult presence?

Integral said:
Why not? I was about that age when I first shot a gun.
8-year olds are rarely allowed to perform surgery in the local hospital either. Not everyone is Integral or Doogie Howser.

You've got to wait till you're 18 to smoke a cigarette, till 21 to drink a beer ... but if you want to go about shooting assault weapons, a toddler in diapers is qualified.
 
Gokul43201 said:
8-year olds are rarely allowed to perform surgery in the local hospital either. Not everyone is Integral or Doogie Howser.

You've got to wait till you're 18 to smoke a cigarette, till 21 to drink a beer ... but if you want to go about shooting assault weapons, a toddler in diapers is qualified.

Smoking cigarettes and drinking beer aren't protected by the Constitution.

A better parallel would probably be voting. That's a guaranteed right, as well.

Actually, I don't have a problem with kids around 10 or 11 or maybe a couple years older gaining familiarity with weapons in either a structured environment like Boy Scouts or under the supervision of adults. The big problem in this instance was the decision making of the adults.
 
Kurdt said:
I've never even seen a police officer with a gun. We have sticks :smile:
I've had undercover police officers pull guns on me and point them at my head and chest. Interesting experience it was.
 
Gokul43201 said:
8-year olds are rarely allowed to perform surgery in the local hospital either. Not everyone is Integral or Doogie Howser.

You've got to wait till you're 18 to smoke a cigarette, till 21 to drink a beer ... but if you want to go about shooting assault weapons, a toddler in diapers is qualified.
I was about 13 when I first smoked a cigarette, and about 14 when I had my first substantial drink - Whisky, Rum, Vodka, . . . .

In my neighborhood, there was a girl whose parents had a well stocked liquor cabinet. Prior to that, I had sipped wine from my parents' glasses at holiday dinners. If one knew the right people, it was easy to buy alcohol.

Another friend had a mother who smoked, and he used to go to the local store to buy cigarettes for her - and himself. It was easy to buy cigarettes.
 
Astronuc said:
I've had undercover police officers pull guns on me and point them at my head and chest. Interesting experience it was.

Dare I ask why?

EDIT: I removed the next bit obviously AFTER Astronuc already quoted :biggrin:

Think (1) I'd prob **** myself and (2) once it's been established that I am no longer in any danger, I'd be PISSED!
 
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phyzmatix said:
Dare I ask why? Think (1) I'd prob **** myself and (2) once it's been established that I am no longer in any danger, I'd be PISSED!
I was with a friend who was doing a favor for another of his friends. The package contained an illicit substance, and the police were waiting to bust whoever showed up to claim the package. I didn't have any ID on me, because I wasn't driving, so they thought I was the one receiving the package. They police were just doing their job.
 
Astronuc said:
I was with a friend who was doing a favor for another of his friends. The package contained an illicit substance, and the police were waiting to bust whoever showed up to claim the package. I didn't have any ID on me, because I wasn't driving, so they thought I was the one receiving the package. They police were just doing their job.

I must admit that I also had friends like these :wink:

Must still have been a nerve-wrecking experience.
 
phyzmatix said:
I must admit that I also had friends like these :wink:

Must still have been a nerve-wrecking experience.
No, not really. It was just an interesting experience.
 
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What an idiot. This guy deserves life in prision for being a moron. Giving his EIGHT YEAR OLD SON an AUTOMATIC weapon?

What?!

That's horribly irresponbile and retarded. The kid was EIGHT. He couldn't have been shooting anything larger than a .22 for more than a year. Hell, just the other day I saw some 19 year old idiot shoot himself in the hand because he couldn't control his handgun when it fired in automatic, much less an EIGHT year old. What a dumbass.
 
Astronuc said:
I've had undercover police officers pull guns on me and point them at my head and chest. Interesting experience it was.
I had a police officer pull a gun on me while I was taking a shower. Beat that! :-p
 
Evo said:
I had a police officer pull a gun on me while I was taking a shower. Beat that! :-p

Mmm. Lots of things come to mind here o:) :rolleyes: What kind of gun ? :-p
 
Evo said:
I had a police officer pull a gun on me while I was taking a shower. Beat that! :-p
I can't. I was stopped for a headlight violation once and when I opened the glove compartment to get the paperwork, there was a butterknife there. Even though I didn't touch the knife, the officer told me that if she had a partner with her, she would have pulled her gun on me on account of the knife. I don't know why she needed a partner to do that, but anyway she didn't do it. When I got home I cleaned out the glove compartment and the door wells. There was a steak knife there. It was three grades duller than the butter knife, but I think she would have plugged me if she had seen it and asked questions later. I mean if she had a partner with her.
 
Evo said:
I had a police officer pull a gun on me while I was taking a shower. Beat that! :-p
I was on the other end of that exchange once. My wife was in rough shape after a serious car accident, and (luckily) I was home and not working that early-morning shift. She woke me, saying that she heard someone downstairs, and I padded down there very quietly, swung around the dividing wall between the stairway and the kitchen, and aimed for a head-shot before I hollered at the intruder. It turned out to be her sister's son. He said that he had car trouble and let himself into use the phone (we didn't lock doors much then). I told him to get out, and strangely, he had no problem driving away, chirping his tires when he hit the pavement. I was naked, though I was nicely accessorized with a Colt Python loaded with .357 hollow-points. Years later, he entered my wife's cousin's place while she and her husband were asleep, and stole some clothing, watches, and other stuff. Maybe I should have dropped the creep and then hollered to get his attention.
 
edward said:
According to my local paper the eight year old was shooting a 9mm Micro Uzi. That is way too much weapon for an eight year old.

I started shooting a 22 when I was about that age but my dad was always behind me with his arms around me supporting the rifle.

This was my thought. I too was shooting guns by the time I could ride a bicycle, but dad and friends always took into account the possibility of a problem. This is an obvious requirement of the situation - a child with a powerful weapon, or any weapon for that matter. The events in the linked story are a clear indication that the adults involved were complete idiots.

I was shooting a Savage 400, and 12 gauge with high-base magnums, by the time I was ten, and I never came close to having an accident. At age 12 I took the NRA gun course, which was rigorous for a person my age, and almost entirely safety oriented. I don't know the status of this, but back then it was required in order to get a hunting license in Ca. It should be required in all States for all ages.
 
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edward said:
According to my local paper the eight year old was shooting a 9mm Micro Uzi. That is way too much weapon for an eight year old.

I started shooting a 22 when I was about that age but my dad was always behind me with his arms around me supporting the rifle.

That's the part that seems completely irresponsible and that I don't understand. First, I really don't know why one would hand an Uzi to an 8-year old. A BB gun, maybe, but an Uzi? And, just because he's shot firearms before doesn't mean he knew what he was doing or was in control. The instructor should NEVER have just handed a gun to a kid and let him go at it! And the dad just fiddling for a camera rather than stepping into supervise either! If you're going to let a kid fire a gun of any kind, stand right behind him and have your arms ready to steady him or the gun if need be. Heck, if I were to fire a gun for the first time and I had no idea what sort of kick to expect, I'd want someone "spotting" me from behind just in case.

The worst part, I read in the local paper here that the kid's father is chief of the emergency department at a hospital! And one of the quotes sounded really blase about any sense of responsibility...sort of a "I don't know what happened, it was just such a freak accident" type of statement. Huh? How does someone who works in an ER not know what sort of damage gun shot wounds can inflict and how dangerous they can be in the hands of an inexperienced person, especially an inexperienced person so young and small they have little chance to control it?
 
Ivan Seeking said:
I too was shooting guns by the time I could ride a bicycle...

Think about it, you wouldn't even let a kid ride a bicycle the first time without being there to catch it and stop it from falling if they lose their balance, and most likely, the worse that happens if they fall off their bicycle is they break an arm. Why would you hand them something that can be deadly and not stand there ready to grab them if something goes wrong, or even hold their arms to help steady them the first time?
 
vanesch said:
Mmm. Lots of things come to mind here o:) :rolleyes: What kind of gun ? :-p

An oozy?
 
This is such a stupid senseless thing. Why one Earth would anyone let an 8 year old shoot and Uzi? I'm from a farm and shot my first gun (a .22) around the time i suppose I was 11 or 12 or so, I can't really remember. And I had an entire course in school in grade 9 about gun safety and proper shooting. No one would have ever let me shoot an uzi. Good lord. What stupid parents. It would have been like my father getting me a CBR 1000 as a first motorcycle when I was 10 instead of the little XR I had...STUPID!.
 
Evo said:
. . . . while I was taking a shower. Beat that! :-p
:-p Indeed! :smile: :biggrin:

Besides, that doesn't count. I wasn't there to witness. :-p
 
Ivan Seeking said:
An oozy?

Grooooooooaaaaannnnn! :rolleyes:
 
My pun sense is tingling. I guess it would be wise to suppress it though.
 
Evo said:
I had a police officer pull a gun on me while I was taking a shower. Beat that! :-p

OK, since you challenged...I was shot by a drunk cop when I was 12. No, I'm not kidding. (Just a shotgun, though.)