Boy, 8, shoots himself to death at Mass. gun show

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An 8-year-old boy tragically shot himself at a Massachusetts gun show while firing an Uzi, leading to discussions about gun safety and child access to firearms. The boy's father, who was taking photos instead of supervising, allowed him to use the automatic weapon despite it being his first time. Many participants expressed outrage over the father's negligence and questioned why such a young child was permitted to handle a weapon designed for adults. The incident raised concerns about the culture surrounding firearms in the U.S., with some arguing that children should not be exposed to guns at such a young age, while others shared personal experiences of learning gun safety as children. The conversation highlighted the importance of proper supervision and education regarding firearms, as well as the societal implications of introducing children to guns. The father is now facing scrutiny for his actions, and the incident has sparked a broader debate about gun culture and safety practices in America.
  • #51
According to my local paper the eight year old was shooting a 9mm Micro Uzi. That is way too much weapon for an eight year old.

I started shooting a 22 when I was about that age but my dad was always behind me with his arms around me supporting the rifle.

Micro Uzi video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zM21B3LFDFI&feature=related
 
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  • #52
edward said:
According to my local paper the eight year old was shooting a 9mm Micro Uzi. That is way too much weapon for an eight year old.

I started shooting a 22 when I was about that age but my dad was always behind me with his arms around me supporting the rifle.

This was my thought. I too was shooting guns by the time I could ride a bicycle, but dad and friends always took into account the possibility of a problem. This is an obvious requirement of the situation - a child with a powerful weapon, or any weapon for that matter. The events in the linked story are a clear indication that the adults involved were complete idiots.

I was shooting a Savage 400, and 12 gauge with high-base magnums, by the time I was ten, and I never came close to having an accident. At age 12 I took the NRA gun course, which was rigorous for a person my age, and almost entirely safety oriented. I don't know the status of this, but back then it was required in order to get a hunting license in Ca. It should be required in all States for all ages.
 
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  • #53
edward said:
According to my local paper the eight year old was shooting a 9mm Micro Uzi. That is way too much weapon for an eight year old.

I started shooting a 22 when I was about that age but my dad was always behind me with his arms around me supporting the rifle.

That's the part that seems completely irresponsible and that I don't understand. First, I really don't know why one would hand an Uzi to an 8-year old. A BB gun, maybe, but an Uzi? And, just because he's shot firearms before doesn't mean he knew what he was doing or was in control. The instructor should NEVER have just handed a gun to a kid and let him go at it! And the dad just fiddling for a camera rather than stepping into supervise either! If you're going to let a kid fire a gun of any kind, stand right behind him and have your arms ready to steady him or the gun if need be. Heck, if I were to fire a gun for the first time and I had no idea what sort of kick to expect, I'd want someone "spotting" me from behind just in case.

The worst part, I read in the local paper here that the kid's father is chief of the emergency department at a hospital! And one of the quotes sounded really blase about any sense of responsibility...sort of a "I don't know what happened, it was just such a freak accident" type of statement. Huh? How does someone who works in an ER not know what sort of damage gun shot wounds can inflict and how dangerous they can be in the hands of an inexperienced person, especially an inexperienced person so young and small they have little chance to control it?
 
  • #54
Ivan Seeking said:
I too was shooting guns by the time I could ride a bicycle...

Think about it, you wouldn't even let a kid ride a bicycle the first time without being there to catch it and stop it from falling if they lose their balance, and most likely, the worse that happens if they fall off their bicycle is they break an arm. Why would you hand them something that can be deadly and not stand there ready to grab them if something goes wrong, or even hold their arms to help steady them the first time?
 
  • #55
vanesch said:
Mmm. Lots of things come to mind here o:) :rolleyes: What kind of gun ? :-p

An oozy?
 
  • #56
This is such a stupid senseless thing. Why one Earth would anyone let an 8 year old shoot and Uzi? I'm from a farm and shot my first gun (a .22) around the time i suppose I was 11 or 12 or so, I can't really remember. And I had an entire course in school in grade 9 about gun safety and proper shooting. No one would have ever let me shoot an uzi. Good lord. What stupid parents. It would have been like my father getting me a CBR 1000 as a first motorcycle when I was 10 instead of the little XR I had...STUPID!.
 
  • #57
Evo said:
. . . . while I was taking a shower. Beat that! :-p
:-p Indeed! :smile: :biggrin:

Besides, that doesn't count. I wasn't there to witness. :-p
 
  • #58
Ivan Seeking said:
An oozy?

Grooooooooaaaaannnnn! :rolleyes:
 
  • #59
My pun sense is tingling. I guess it would be wise to suppress it though.
 
  • #60
Evo said:
I had a police officer pull a gun on me while I was taking a shower. Beat that! :-p

OK, since you challenged...I was shot by a drunk cop when I was 12. No, I'm not kidding. (Just a shotgun, though.)
 
  • #61
lisab said:
OK, since you challenged...I was shot by a drunk cop when I was 12. No, I'm not kidding. (Just a shotgun, though.)
"just a shotgun" :rolleyes:

Ok, you get first place.
 
  • #62
So... has anyone been shot by a drunk cop in the shower? That seems like the logical next step.
⚛​
 
  • #63
Moonbear said:
Grooooooooaaaaannnnn! :rolleyes:

thank you. I didn't want to be associated with that pun in any way.

Everyone in my school took the NRA gun safety class in 6th or 7th grade. I don't own any guns now, but I used to when I was younger. Everyone in my town had guns and hunted. If there is a chance that a kid is going to come across a gun I think they should know something about gun safety.
 
  • #64
Just got here.

Only question I have is WHY was it loaded? WTF...
 
  • #65
Kurdt said:
Does it really matter? I doubt it is the cub scouts teaching people to be responsible with firearms that turns potential murderers into nice citizens. I'd be willing to bet that the background circumstances that turn the majority of people into murderers would be such that they'd never go there in the first place. In which case that is not the success of the cub scouts, but rather the failure of society.
I see no functional difference there, whether the cub scouts is the cause or the effect (notice: I did not specify).

Clarification, though: it is not a failure of society, it is a failure of parenting. It isn't society's job to raise that guy's kid.
 
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  • #66
Dad doesn't seem to be very upset about it.

 
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  • #67
russ_watters said:
This complete aversion to guns people have today is a relatively new thing and indicates more about the people who hold the opinion: they are overly sheltered and naive about guns.

Yes, it is new.
But sounds like either you are living in really old times or in a really dangerous area. How many times you actually had to use the gun?

And yes, it is society's job to make sure that children are raised properly.
 
  • #68
edward said:
Dad doesn't seem to be very upset about it.



It's really weird, it's like he just couldn't care less that his kid is dead. That was what struck me about one of the quotes from him in the local paper. Even though it was just a written quote, it was worded in such a way that it just seemed like he could have been talking about a complete stranger's kid. The school principal in that news clip seemed to have more emotion than the father. The kid died doing something the father stupidly gave him permission to do and stood by watching as it happened, yet the father seems to have no remorse about it at all. I would expect him to be inconsolably bawling his eyes out and wracked with guilt about letting the kid do something so stupid.
 
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  • #69
Evo said:
I had a police officer pull a gun on me while I was taking a shower. Beat that! :-p

:eek: You guys are weird...

:-p
 
  • #70
Integral said:
I am sorry this is udder nonsense. A gun is NOT a toy, just because you teach a child to handle a gun does not mean it is a toy. Quite the opposite, children taught to safely handle and respect fire arms are not going treat them like toys. It is kids who are NOT taught proper firearms safety that get into trouble when they happen to get their hands on a weapon.

A persons approach to problem solving in completely independent of their familiarity or in familiarity with firearms.

The simple fact is, any house with a firearms and children, the children should be taught firearms safety and respect.
Yup.
I was taught how to handle firearms when I was around 10, which is when my dad bought his first firearm.
binzing said:
Just got here.

Only question I have is WHY was it loaded? WTF...

Read the article. They were at the range.
 
  • #71
rootX said:
Yes, it is new.
But sounds like either you are living in really old times or in a really dangerous area. How many times you actually had to use the gun?

And yes, it is society's job to make sure that children are raised properly.

You seem have granted guns a nearly magical power over people. To listen to you, as soon as a person picks up a gun they are overcome with a urge to shoot someone. I simply do not see any connection between knowledge of firearms and proper raising of children.

Guns owned by responsible law abiding citizens (that is a lot of guns) are "used" with some frequency, either at the shooting range or hunting. The "normal" gun owner will NEVER have the need (or desire) to fire his weapon AT another human. You must spend to much time watching the evening news, perhaps you believe that all gun owners are gang members driving around town randomly "using" their gun by firing at what ever presents itself as a target. Needless to say this is simply not the case. You seem to be filled with many misconceptions about guns and gun ownership in general. Please drop your preconceptions and quit making judgements based upon them.
 
  • #72
Moonbear said:
It's really weird, it's like he just couldn't care less that his kid is dead. ... I would expect him to be inconsolably bawling his eyes out and wracked with guilt about letting the kid do something so stupid.
It's fine that years of TV give you that expectation -- but to conclude that the guy doesn't care simply because he doesn't make a spectacle of himself is wholly irresponsible.
 
  • #73
Mental block perhaps? When my Dad passed out I was completely separated from the thing, just observing everything from the distance. It was huge and thick wall. It fall during funeral. Good that it was pouring, nobody realized how I was crying. I was almost 30 then.
 
  • #74
Borek said:
Mental block perhaps? When my Dad passed out I was completely separated from the thing, just observing everything from the distance. It was huge and thick wall. It fall during funeral. Good that it was pouring, nobody realized how I was crying. I was almost 30 then.

yeah, sometimes it does take a while before a loss really hits you.

it's also possible that being an ER doc he's learned to suppress his emotions, or has just become numb to tragedy.

another possibility is sociopathy, which I'm not sure is so much of a character flaw as it is a disability.
 
  • #75
russ_watters said:
I see no functional difference there, whether the cub scouts is the cause or the effect (notice: I did not specify).

Clarification, though: it is not a failure of society, it is a failure of parenting. It isn't society's job to raise that guy's kid.

Primary responsibility of the parents but I'd say that if the wider society wants responsible citizens they have to take a more pro-active role in either educating parents to be or removing children from parents found to be unfit. If you want to let potential killers grow up and do just that then fair enough.
 
  • #76
Kurdt said:
Primary responsibility of the parents but I'd say that if the wider society wants responsible citizens they have to take a more pro-active role in either educating parents to be or removing children from parents found to be unfit.
I make this prediction. When they come to take away a freedom that you do cherish, it will be done in the name of protecting children.
 
  • #77
Hurkyl said:
It's fine that years of TV give you that expectation -- but to conclude that the guy doesn't care simply because he doesn't make a spectacle of himself is wholly irresponsible.

Did I say he didn't care? I said something is weird about his reaction. And, no, it's not years of TV, it's life experience of seeing people dealing with tragedy first hand. It's irresponsible NOT to notice something is wrong with his affect as he's talking about this. A parent does not lose a child without having an emotional response. There should be some sign of it...watery eyes, a crack in the voice...even the most stoic person can't hide all those signs of grief when it's someone that close to them as a child. The ones who show no emotion are the ones you need to watch out for. Somebody better have him on 24 hour suicide watch, or the next news story will be of him shooting himself.

As for people who seem to be blaming guns for this, consider other tools that require no permit to use but nobody in their right mind would let a child try out just for a photo op...would you hand a chain saw to an 8-year old and tell him to rev it up and then blame the chain saw manufacturers and all the chain saw owners of the world and the lack of laws banning chainsaws when the kid lopped an arm or leg off? No, you'd put blame right where it belongs, on the moron of a parent who hands a chainsaw to a child too young to operate it and then fumbles for a camera while the child is attempting to control it.

When you were only 8 years old, did your mom just hand you a 10" butcher knife and instruct you to make dinner? No. At that age, you were probably allowed to cut soft foods with a steak knife, or maybe a small paring knife. If someone handed their kid a butcher knife and told them to cut up carrots and they were going to take a picture while they did it, and then landed the kid in the ER with missing fingers, would you blame knife manufacturers and society for not banning butcher knives from kitchens? Again, no. You'd be investigating the parent for child neglect or abuse or some such for showing monumentally poor lack of judgement in their parenting skills.
 
  • #78
Kurdt said:
If you want to let potential killers grow up and do just that then fair enough.

But as this case demonstrates, when parenting skills are truly horrendous, the kids don't grow up.
 
  • #79
Moonbear said:
But as this case demonstrates, when parenting skills are truly horrendous, the kids don't grow up.

That is not always true.
 
  • #80
Moonbear said:
But as this case demonstrates, when parenting skills are truly horrendous, the kids don't grow up.

It's kind of sad.

I'm not sure how people justify raising their child like that.
 
  • #81
JasonRox said:
It's kind of sad.

I'm not sure how people justify raising their child like that.

Because if you raise a child like that, you don't have to do it very long.
 
  • #82
Moonbear said:
But as this case demonstrates, when parenting skills are truly horrendous, the kids don't grow up.

1) Everyone knew there would be the use of automatic guns
2) We all know kids shouldn't be in that place unless you are american where you think kids in diapers can shoot.
 
  • #83
Integral said:
Guns owned by responsible law abiding citizens (that is a lot of guns) are "used" with some frequency, either at the shooting range or hunting. The "normal" gun owner will NEVER have the need (or desire) to fire his weapon AT another human.

Russ implied in his post that he need his gun for protection.
they are overly sheltered

I am not thinking that all gun owner are gang members but I am trying to emphasize the point that immature individuals who lack judgement shouldn't be exposed to any kind of weapons.
Here:
Letting children play with guns is an indicator of bad society. If they grow up with weapons, they will be more dependent on those weapons which is unhealthy.
I never made any reference to adults ...

Ok, let's say adults can posses guns but there should be an age limit for children. And, I believe the theory that exposing children to violence or weapons is unhealthy. If that theory is wrong then I will be wrong.
 
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  • #84
Somewhat related news - not sure if someone has already brought this up in another thread:
An 8-year-old boy charged in the shooting deaths of his father and another man appeared in handcuffs at a court hearing, drawing tears from some in the audience, and the judge slapped a gag order on the shocking case.
...
Defense attorney Benjamin Brewer also asked for access to the crime scene — a two-story home where police say the boy's father, Vincent Romero, a 29-year-old employee of a construction company, and his co-worker and roommate, Timothy Romans, 39, were shot with a .22-caliber rifle on Wednesday.
...
Relatives and friends painted a picture of Romero as a caring father who seemed to be doing all he could to raise a polite and respectful boy.

"They were always together doing things as a family, fishing, hunting," said Carlos Diaz, a cousin of Romero's current wife.
...
Police said Romero's son planned and methodically carried out the killings, and confessed. Authorities would not discuss specifics of the confession.

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5iG_nB7rdOr3TiaL5ph3YDR5qNNTAD94CLQA80
 
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