Bundle and differential manifold

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    Differential Manifold
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the properties of differential manifolds, specifically focusing on the tangent bundle and the demonstration of homeomorphisms and diffeomorphisms between charts. Participants explore the definitions and implications of smooth structures on manifolds and the behavior of derivatives in this context.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant defines the tangent bundle and seeks to demonstrate that it is a differential manifold of dimension 2n.
  • Another participant notes that the derivative of a C^{\infty} function is itself C^{\infty}, suggesting this is a foundational property for the discussion.
  • Several participants inquire about the nature of the maps \(\Phi\) and \(\Psi\), specifically whether they are homeomorphisms and how to show that their composition is a C^{\infty} diffeomorphism.
  • There is a contention regarding the statement that the derivative of a k-times differentiable function is k-1 times differentiable, with one participant providing a counterexample.
  • Participants express the need to demonstrate that the charts are homeomorphisms and that the change of charts is a C^{k-1} diffeomorphism if the manifold is C^{k}.
  • Questions are raised about the properties of the differential of a diffeomorphism and its implications for the smoothness of the map between tangent spaces.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the definitions and properties of smooth manifolds and homeomorphisms, but there is disagreement regarding the implications of differentiability and the behavior of derivatives, particularly in the context of k-times differentiable functions.

Contextual Notes

Some participants express uncertainty about the conditions under which certain properties hold, particularly regarding the smoothness of derivatives and the implications of differentiability on the structure of manifolds.

Who May Find This Useful

Readers interested in differential geometry, the study of manifolds, and the properties of smooth functions may find this discussion relevant.

Calabi
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Hello : let be a differential manifold C^{\infty} : M of dimension n.
I choose a point p.

In this point I can defined the tangent space. It's a vectoirial space of dimension n, I'll talk about it in a precedent thread, .
This space is in bijection with the derivation space : each derivation associated a real to each fonction C^{\infty} define on a neighbourhood of p.
Each derivator is a directionnal derivate.

I defined the tangent bundle as : TM = \cup_{p \in M} (\{p\} \times T_{p}M). I want to demonstrate that this space is a differential C^{+\infty} manifold of dimension 2n.

I beginn to define a topology on this space. Let (U, \phi) et (V, \psi) 2 charts, which are compatible C^{\infty} and U \cap V \neq \varnothing. I defined an open as \pi^{-1}(U) = \{ \{p\} \times T_{p}M / p \in U \}.

Like all the open define a topology which recover M, all the open I defined with my \pi^{-1} on TM defined a topology which recover TM.

Now I defined the same things on (V, \psi).

Now let's go back to (U, \phi) : I defined :
\Phi : \begin{pmatrix} \pi^{-1}(U) \rightarrow \phi(U) \times \mathbb{R}^{n} \subset \mathbb{R}^{2n} \\ (p, X_{p}) \rightarrow (\phi(p), d_{\phi(p)}(X_{p})) \end{pmatrix}.

I recall that d_{\phi(p)} associated to each vectors of T_{p}M a vectors from T_{\phi(p)}\mathbb{R}^{n}. Like \forall x \in \mathbb{R}^{n}, T_{x}\mathbb{R}^{n} \simeq \mathbb{R}^{n}, I can identified d_{\phi(p)}(X_{p}) to an elements of \mathbb{R}^{n}. With this natural components in the natural base.

I do the same things by defining \Psi.
And (U, \phi) et (V, \psi) are arbitrarlly choose.

So 2 question how to demonstrate that \Phi is an homeomorphism please?

How to demosntrate that \Psi o \Phi^{-1} is a C^{\infty} diffeomorphisme please?

Thank you in advance and have a nice afternoon:biggrin:.
 
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On ne doit qu'observer que la dérivée d'une fonction ##C^∞## est ##C^∞## elle-même( par définition de ##C^∞##) est que la dérivée d'une fonction de transition est un isomorphism lineare de l'espace tangente a chaque point.

Essayez de montrer que l'espace euclidien est une variété ##C^∞##.

Bonne journée.
 
Salut Lavina. Merci à vous. First by the way : you could replace all the +\infty by k.

I'm going to wright : \Psi o \Phi^{-1}(\phi(p), d_{\phi(p)}(X_{p}) )= (\psi o \phi^{-1}(p) , d_{\psi(p)} o d_{\phi(p)}^{-1}(X_{p})) and I've got : \Phi(p, X_{p}) = (\phi(p), d_{\phi(p)}(X_{p}).
I know that \phi like \psi are homeomorphism. And that \psi o \phi^{-1} is C^{+\infty} because of the C^{+\infty} differential manifold structure.

So for the first par of the 2 uplets it's done.

What about d_{\psi(p)} o d_{\phi(p)}^{-1} is it an diffeormorphism C^{+\infty} please?

And about d_{\phi(p)}, is it an homeomorphism please?

Thank you in advance and have a nice afternoon:biggrin:.
 
Calabi said:
Salut Lavina. Merci à vous. First by the way : you could replace all the +\infty by k.
No. The derivative of a k times differentiable function might only be (k-1) times differentiable. There are examples of continuously differentiable functions whose derivative is nowhere differentiable.

I'm going to wright : \Psi o \Phi^{-1}(\phi(p), d_{\phi(p)}(X_{p}) )= (\psi o \phi^{-1}(p) , d_{\psi(p)} o d_{\phi(p)}^{-1}(X_{p})) and I've got : \Phi(p, X_{p}) = (\phi(p), d_{\phi(p)}(X_{p}).
I know that \phi like \psi are homeomorphism. And that \psi o \phi^{-1} is C^{+\infty} because of the C^{+\infty} differential manifold structure.

So for the first par of the 2 uplets it's done.

What about d_{\psi(p)} o d_{\phi(p)}^{-1} is it an diffeormorphism C^{+\infty} please?

And about d_{\phi(p)}, is it an homeomorphism please?

Thank you in advance and have a nice afternoon:biggrin:.

As I said before, the differential of a ##C^∞## diffemomorphism is a ##C^∞## diffeomorphism.

- The differential of a smooth diffeomorphism is a diffeomorphism because it is smooth and invertible.
 
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Hello I wright for the probleme I demonstrate my charts is an homeomorphisme, it's continue and a bijection. The reverse fonction is also a continue bijection. I juste have to demonstrate now that my charts changing \Psi o \Phi^{-1} is a C^{k-1} diffeomorphism if my manifold is C^{k}. How could I do please?

Thank you in advance and have a nice afternoon:biggrin:.
 
lavinia said:
As I said before, the differential of a C∞C^∞ diffemomorphism is a C∞C^∞ diffeomorphism.

How to demonstrate it please? And

Thank you in advance and have a nice afternoon:biggrin:.
 
Calabi said:
How to demonstrate it please? And

Thank you in advance and have a nice afternoon:biggrin:.

Calabi. Here are some questions that may help you.

- The differential of a diffeomorphism is a map between tangent spaces. This map is linear and is an isomorphism. Why?
- A smooth map is infinitely differentiable. What is the definition of infinitely differentiable for a multi-variable function?
- A smooth diffeomorphism by definition has a smooth inverse. What does this mean about the differential?
 
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