News Bush caught staging meeting with troops

Gokul43201

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Moonbear said:
Seems a bit hypocritical of CBS to criticize for "staging" (however you want to interpret it...scripting, preparing, screening, etc) the news report.
Did you miss the part where Scott McClellan told the press that the teleconference was not pre-screened ? Why say that ?!!!
 

russ_watters

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faust9 said:
Russ, Kat, anyone else: Have you SEEN the rehersal or are you protecting the shrub for no real good reason?

Allison Barber used the term "scripted" for god's sake. Wake up people! Stop apologizing for Bush.
All I have seen is the clip in the link in the OP. Allison Barber doesn't use the term in the article or in the 2-minute clip. Where can I see what you are referring to?
Gokul said:
Did you miss the part where Scott McClellan told the press that the teleconference was not pre-screened ?
Yes, I did - where can I read/hear that? What you provided does not have that part.

I suppose I could just give the reporter, who would have his career made by tripping Scott McClellan up, the benefit of the doubt based on what you quoted, but I'm not inclined to do that.
 
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russ_watters

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Informal Logic said:
There is a big difference between an interview that is granted by a guest versus speaking to an audience. Even if there is Q&A with the audience, such as WH briefings, it is presented to the viewer as an impromptu forum (and why Gannon was a such a scandal).
Haven't you ever seen a reporter interview a group in a news magazine? That is essentially what Bush was doing. I don't see why anyone would assume that it was meant to be entirely extemporaneous - and that appears to be what people are doing. Presidents pretty much never say anything extemporaneous.
 

Moonbear

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Gokul43201 said:
Did you miss the part where Scott McClellan told the press that the teleconference was not pre-screened ? Why say that ?!!!
I didn't see that part either. In the video clip, all they said is that it was rehearsed, not scripted. From what they showed, it seemed like they were just identifying who would answer what questions...if anything, it was probably to give Bush a Cliff's notes to remember who was who and call them by name. Nothing indicated they had told them what to answer.

Actually, if the cameras were rolling and they DID tell them what to answer, wouldn't that seem to be the best clip to include? If they didn't include it, maybe it's because no such thing actually happened.
 

SOS2008

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I'm reading through this thread, and in addition to the clip I see evidence presented in post #17 with transcripts from the White House in which Scott McClellan appears to be flip flopping, and quotes from Reuters in post #19 referring to the event as "a carefully scripted event, a handpicked group of U.S. troops" that is prompted to answer accordingly.

This may well be exaggerated. But the problem is Scott McClellan has flip flopped so many times, and the White House has meddled with the media so many times, anything that even remotely smacks of more of the same is going to be called into question. They have lost credibility, and they have only themselves to blame for it.

Then of course there are those members who claim they don't support Bush, but inevitably defend everything he and his administration does, often to the point of laughable reasoning--rather suspicious. :wink:
 
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russ_watters said:
All I have seen is the clip in the link in the OP. Allison Barber doesn't use the term in the article or in the 2-minute clip. Where can I see what you are referring to? Yes, I did - where can I read/hear that? What you provided does not have that part.
I suppose I could just give the reporter, who would have his career made by tripping Scott McClellan up, the benefit of the doubt based on what you quoted, but I'm not inclined to do that.
I find it odd that you responded to this thread with such certitude without having seen either of the events in question.

We'll start with the a polished news article(not a lot of info but a good picture that will come up a little later). The lady in the lower left is front row will become a sticking point here in a few days I'll bet.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051013/ap_on_go_pr_wh/bush_iraq [Broken]

Here's what CNN reported(Scotty boy is featured here---I'm looking for the full press conference):
http://movies.crooksandliars.com/The%20Situation-Room-staged-Iraq-troops-photo-op.mov [Broken]

NBC has a little more:
http://movies.crooksandliars.com/NBC-Nightly-NewsTroops-staged-photo-Op-10-13-05.mov [Broken]

Take note of this comment from Allison Barber

ALLISON BARBER: If he gives us a question that is not something that we've scripted...
The presidents comments were scripted.

Now, back to the little miss in the front row: Who the heck is she? Well, the Village Voice has a little insight.
http://www.villagevoice.com/blogs/bushbeat/archive/001948.php [Broken]

Nothing like sticking a Military PR professional into a crowd of battle hardened Officers. I don't recall any enlisted among the group. I guess they do crazy things like ask tough questions to high ranking politicians (remember the Rumsfeld armor question).

Anywho, here's the Press conference transcript:
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2005/10/20051013-2.html [Broken]

The president was scripted and the responses were coached---contrary to the WH description of the event. As a former military man you should be outraged at how the WH is using these photo-ops and troop events to bolster their lagging poll numbers.

[edit]Ms. Lombardos Division.
http://www.42id.army.mil/newsstory/2 IA Graduation.htm

Note the "42nd Infantry Division Public Affairs" right above the picture.

Olbermann has the press conference.
http://movies.crooksandliars.com/Countdown-Bush-staged-photo-op.mov [Broken]
 
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Astronuc

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Allison Barber, deputy assistant defense secretary, mentioning "if he [Bush] gives us a question that we have not scripted . . ." - well all it means is that it is not so spontaneous and people have been presumably been prepared for his questions . . . .

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4957379

It is also reported on NPR - and one can hear Allison in her own words . .

Under - The President's Videconference
Click on - Hear the Rehearsal
 
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Astronuc said:
Allison Barber, deputy assistant defense secretary, mentioning "if he [Bush] gives us a question that we have not scripted . . ." - well all it means is that it is not so spontaneous and people have been presumably been prepared for his questions . . . .
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4957379
It is also reported on NPR - and one can hear Allison in her own words . .
Under - The President's Videconference
Click on - Hear the Rehearsal
Yes, but this was billed as a spontaneous "back-and-forth" between the president and some troops. What we go was a staged production were the president was told what to say and the military members were coached to prevent them from leaving the "script"; moreover, they threw a PR professional into the mix!
 

Gokul43201

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russ_watters said:
Yes, I did - where can I read/hear that? What you provided does not have that part.
It was the link titled "Press Briefing Oct 13, 2005" on the page I linked to.

Anyway, here you go : http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2005/10/20051013-2.html [Broken]
 
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russ_watters

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faust9 said:
I find it odd that you responded to this thread with such certitude without having seen either of the events in question.
:confused: :confused: I responded to the thread after reading the link and watching the video in the OP. That was the only evidence provided. Am I supposed to do the research the original poster didn't provide, to prove his case for him?

You threw a lot of links at me just now - I'll go through them tomorrow. The only one I looked at was Gokul's - it was a full transcript of the second press conference, where the reporter tries to nail McClellan. It isn't much new, except that it expands on what you posted earlier, Gokul, and confirms what I suspected: It is much clearer from that link than your previous one that the reporter is trying, and failing to put words in McClellan's mouth.

It would be helpful, guys, if you could simply provide one direct quote that makes your point, rather than making me search for it.
 
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russ_watters

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Astronuc said:
Allison Barber, deputy assistant defense secretary, mentioning "if he [Bush] gives us a question that we have not scripted . . ." - well all it means is that it is not so spontaneous and people have been presumably been prepared for his questions . . . .
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4957379
Ok....it wasn't completely spontaneous. Is that a surprise? Is that wrong? Bush has a speechwriter(probably more than one) . Of course someone else wrote the questions! Why is that a revalation?

Lets stay on point, here: what would be bad about this is if someone told the soldiers what to say. Is there any evidence of that? Or worse, people are using the word "scripted". That's a pretty specific word: it means that the soldiers said word-for-word something someone else wrote down in a script. Is there any evidence of that?

edit: I've finally seen the quote from Barber (faust's post). It says that Bush's questions were scripted. Again, duh...?? Once again, he has a speechwriter. He's a politician. What is unusual about that?

[edited]
 
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russ_watters

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Looking back at page one, though many people use the word "scripted" to describe the event in general, no one discusses whether the answers were scripted except me. The quote from Barber says the questions were scripted. I find it hard to believe, but I must ask: is this entire bruhaha about the fact that someone wrote the questions out for Bush or did people really mean that they thought the answers were scripted? The tone of page one certainly implies to me that people thought the answers were scripted.

Ivan's quote uses the word "coaching" and Ivan repeats it. It is clear from the links that the "coaching" of the answers is limited to sequencing, not the content. Ivan's post implies wrongdoing, which would have to mean the answers were coached. Ivan uses the word "scripted" in his second post. By then, the implication that the answers were scripted is more clear. Indeed, since pretty much every word any President ever says is scripted, the only way for this to be newsworthy is if it were the soldiers who were scripted.
 
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russ_watters

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Moonbear asked, but maybe I'll get a response where she didnt:

Is there a quote that says that the soldiers' answers were scripted?
 

GENIERE

russ_watters said:
...Is there a quote that says that the soldiers' answers were scripted?
No, but thats not relavant to the liberal thought process. You must try to understand the liberal mind. The liberal is controlled..
[edit] I figured I would do little research before I tried to explain but when I Googled for "liberal mind", the first hit revealed that the "Liberal Mind" was under new management"
Hopefully, the new management does a better job.
...
 
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rachmaninoff

I'm amazed with you all. Here we have happy, smiling soliders on television spreading disinformation about a horrific war, and you narrow in on whether or not the press secretary initially admitted that it was scripted? We're lacking perspective.
 

Skyhunter

rachmaninoff said:
I'm amazed with you all. Here we have happy, smiling soliders on television spreading disinformation about a horrific war, and you narrow in on whether or not the press secretary initially admitted that it was scripted? We're lacking perspective.
You need to search through Penguino's posts and you will come upon one where he says that liberals and conservatives are both immoral, or something to that effect. He reasons that conservatives are comfortable with it, while liberals are in denial.

That is the only reasoning that makes sense as to why they would accept direct evidence that they are being deceived with the attitude, of..... Duh..:rolleyes: like you didn't know?....Isn't our president wonderful.:rofl:
 

SOS2008

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rachmaninoff said:
I'm amazed with you all. Here we have happy, smiling soliders on television spreading disinformation about a horrific war, and you narrow in on whether or not the press secretary initially admitted that it was scripted? We're lacking perspective.
So true. To your point, a quote from below: “You and I are talking about stage craft instead of about how motivated the troops are.” In addition to this point, the president and his administration lied to start the war, and have kept lying ever since--this is just more of that MO. The seriousness of the chain of lies is tremendous.

Focusing on flip flops by the press secretary is not as disconcerting as those who think it's okay that he flip flops, and worse that Bush lies to the American people. Over and over, a main defense is that this is common in politics so what's the big deal? (I'm certain this would not be argued if it was a president these people didn't support. :rolleyes: ) For those who constantly excuse the acts of the current administration, the report below addresses exactly that showing how “this White House has taken staging to a whole new level.”

BROWN: In "Wag the Dog," a Washington insider recruits a Hollywood producer to produce a war. I'm in show business, the producer says. Why come to me? War is show business, the insider replies. And besides, we're not going to have a war. Just the appearance of a war.

Well, in Iraq, we do have a war. Also, at times it turns out, the appearance of show business. We saw a bit of it this week and we also saw the machinery backstage. That's part of a larger story, call it the opening act. Here's CNN's Jeff Greenfield.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JEFF GREENFIELD, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): This is what American viewers were supposed to see, the president talking with American officers serving in Iraq. Getting some spontaneous, upbeat assessments. This is what they weren't supposed to see. Defense Department official Allison Barber running through what sounded like a meticulous rehearsal, previewing who would get which questions and how they would be answered?

ALLISON BARBER, PENTAGON OFFICIAL: And in the last 10 months, what kind of progress have we seen?

GREENFIELD: Including guidance on what to do if a spontaneous moment, in fact, popped up.

BARBER: If there's a question that the president comes up with that we haven't drilled through today, then I am expecting the microphone to go right back to you, Captain Kennedy and you to handle.

MIKE ALLEN, "TIME MAGAZINE": This is embarrassing for the White House. It was unintended. You and I are talking about stage craft instead of about how motivated the troops are.

GREENFIELD: For "Time Magazine's" Mike Allen, the idea the White House stages an event is about as shocking as a revelation that the sun rises in the east.

ALLEN: Any White House, not this one in particular, is about control. These people just seem to be better at it.

GREENFIELD (on camera): Which may be the real story here. That a White House that has managed to launch a thousand stories about its carefully-staged events and its carefully-crafted photo opportunities managed to pull off a carelessly staged event.

One thing for sure, any indignation about a White House that stages the news comes about a century too late.

(voice-over): It was President Roosevelt, Theodore, not Franklin, that brought the press photographers along on hunting and camping trips making his vigor and physicality a key element in his political appeal. Those endearing pictures of John Kennedy's family didn't happen by accident but politicians have gotten a lot more blatant about it.

Back in 1972, Republican officials were embarrassed when the press got hold of a script for one of their convention nights. Spontaneous applause moments and all.

By 1996, Democratic operatives briefing the press every day about their scripted convention moments. The Clinton White House took some heat in 1994 when critics charged they staged an emotional moment at a D-Day commemoration at Normandy with President Clinton forming a cross out of stones.

But this White House has taken staging to a whole new level. From the mission accomplished presidential landing aboard an aircraft carrier in 2003.

BUSH: Thank you very much.

GREENFIELD: To town hall meetings and other events where pay they had to sign pledges that they were in fact backing the president. As a tactical matter, it has worked. Until recently when a series of events seemed to have gone awry. This picture of president bush looking down at Hurricane ravaged New Orleans last month seemed to symbolize not engagement but distance.

Repeated visits to the Gulf and the highly dramatic solo walk to the podium from magically lit Jackson Square in New Orleans did not improve the president's job approval numbers.

BUSH: Good evening.

GREENFIELD: Some have even suggested that the entanglement of Karl Rove and other White House aides with the grand jury investigation may be distracting the political team.

(on camera): Or maybe it's just a case of trouble begetting trouble. The country is in a pessimistic mood. Iraq remains troubled. Gas prices are high. The president's Supreme Court pick has angered the base and now inflation may be rearing its ugly head again. As basketball legend and philosopher Bill Russell once said, when things go bad, they go bad. Even public relations.

Jeff Greenfield, CNN, New York.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0510/14/asb.01.html
 

loseyourname

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Actually, never mind. I don't even want to get involved in this discussion.

I watched Wag the Dog last night. A delightful movie.
 
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scripted by any other name is still...................

What ever you want to call it. According to this link, it was scripted. The whole reherseal was mistakenly sent to the news media via satellite feed.

http://www.foxnews.com/video2/player05.html?101305/fr_pentagon_101305&FOX_Report&Meeting Rehearsed&acc&U.S. & World&-1&col

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/linkset/2005/04/11/LI2005041100879.html

"If he gives us a question that is not something that we have scripted, Captain Kennedy, you are going to have that mike and that's your chance to impress us all. Master Sergeant Lombardo, when you are talking about the president coming to see you in New York, take a little breath before that so you can be talking directly to him. You got a real message there, ok?"
 
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The other day i saw in tv (I think it was cnn) president bush with a hammer building houses in new orleans! What a patetic piece of propaganda. :yuck: :yuck:
 

solutions in a box

Why was this so hard for some to believe? Everthing Bush does in a public format is scripted, rehearsed, and staged. It has to be that way or the guy continually keeps putting his
foot in his mouth.

This is no big secret, or perhaps some people just don't want to believe it, but it started shortly after 9/11. By that time it was obvious to his handlers that, except for one liners, Bush was not capable of handling unrehearsed extemporaneous discussions.

I would be the first to admit that he has improved tremendously over the last few years. Perhaps his PR people should have more confidence in him.

After watching the FOX news clip it appears that there are some people at the Pentagon who are really miffed about soldiers being used as stage props.
 

russ_watters

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edward said:
"If he gives us a question that is not something that we have scripted..." [emphasis added]
I can't seem to get the Foxnews video to play, but I'll take your word for it that that is what was said. So how does a quote about the questions being scripted imply that the answers were scripted? Does that link show soldiers holding scripts?
 
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russ_watters said:
I can't seem to get the Foxnews video to play, but I'll take your word for it that that is what was said. So how does a quote about the questions were scripted imply that the answers were scripted? Does that link show soldiers holding scripts?
It plays rather sporadically? The soldiers are not holding scripts. I don't think that the soldiers would have gone along with that. The woman in charge of the "rehearsal" even used the term script.

It does say that the FOX News sources at the Pentagn were "livid" about soldiers being scripted and rehearsed.

There are a number of clicklable videos and transcripts in the link below. You have to watch some ads before most of them play. Even the one below may show a "Dell window" which must be closed.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/linkset/2005/04/11/LI2005041100879.html
 
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kat

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"Master Sergeant Lombardo, when you are talking about the president coming to see you in New York, take a little breath before that so you can be talking directly to him. You got a real message there, ok?"


great advice to someone who doesn't normally make their living by being on t.v....sorry..don't see a problem with this one in particular.
 

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