Calc ∆Ho & ∆Eo for CH3OH Reaction @ 298K

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around calculating the changes in enthalpy (∆H) and internal energy (∆E) for the reaction of methanol (CH3OH) at 298K, as well as determining the enthalpy change at a higher temperature of 500°C. Participants explore theoretical approaches and equations relevant to thermodynamics, including Hess's law and the relationship between ∆H and ∆E.

Discussion Character

  • Homework-related
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • One participant calculates ∆H298 using the enthalpy of formation values but expresses uncertainty about calculating ∆E, suggesting the possibility of energy conservation implying ΔE is zero.
  • Another participant emphasizes the need to subtract Δ(PV) to find ΔE and questions the molar volume of methanol, suggesting the use of the ideal gas law for methane and oxygen.
  • Clarification is sought regarding whether part (c) refers to ΔG or ΔH, with a later confirmation that it was meant to be ΔH.
  • One participant suggests using molar heat capacities and Hess's law to determine ΔH at 500K, indicating that ΔH is a state function.
  • Another participant proposes a formula for ΔH at 500K, incorporating molar heat capacities and the quantity of substance, while also noting the need to adjust temperatures for the reactants and products.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the application of Hess's law and the state function nature of enthalpy. However, there is uncertainty regarding the calculation of ΔE and the specifics of the approach for part (c), indicating that multiple views and methods are being considered.

Contextual Notes

There is a lack of consensus on the exact values needed for calculations, such as molar volumes and heat capacities, which may affect the results. Additionally, the discussion does not resolve the uncertainty surrounding the calculation of ΔE.

Ariel Jo
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Homework Statement


For the reaction CH3OH(l) → CH4 (g)+ 1/2 O2 (g)[/B]
(a) Calculate ∆Ho298

(b) Calculate ∆Eo298

(c) Write an equation that would allow you to determine ∆H at 500°C and 1atm

Homework Equations


∆H=∆E+∆(PV)
∆H=Σ∆Hproducts-Σ∆Hreactants

The Attempt at a Solution



a) [∆(CH4)+.5(∆O2)]-∆(CH3OH)=[-74.87 kJ/mol + .5(0 kJ/mol)]-(-238.4 kJ/mol)=∆o298=163.53 kJ/mol

b) I'm lost on how to find the change in internal energy of the system here... Is there a PV integral for work, maybe? If I can't solve it, I may be a smart ass and just write "energy is conserved, so ΔE is 0 for the universe"

c) ΔGo=ΔHo-TΔSo would be my approach here, any feedback on whether this is correct and why would be appreciated
 
Last edited:
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Part b):

To get ΔE, you have to subtract Δ(PV). What is the molar volume of methanol liquid? You can use the ideal gas law to get the molar volume of methane and oxygen.

In part c), are you asking about ΔG or ΔH. There's nothing after the Δ.

Chet
 
Chestermiller said:
Part b):

To get ΔE, you have to subtract Δ(PV). What is the molar volume of methanol liquid? You can use the ideal gas law to get the molar volume of methane and oxygen.

In part c), are you asking about ΔG or ΔH. There's nothing after the Δ.

Chet
Thank you! I will try the enthalpy=energy+pv equation.
in (c) it was meant to be delta H, I've edited it so it should appear now.
 
For part c), you just start with ΔH at 298K and 1 atm, and use molar heat capacities in conjunction with Hess's law to get ΔH at 500 K. Remember Hess's law?

Chet
 
Yup! The sum of the state functions of the products minus the sum of the state functions of the reactants is equal to the sum of the state function of the reaction; change in enthalpy is a state function, so it applies here.
 
Ariel Jo said:
Yup! The sum of the state functions of the products minus the sum of the state functions of the reactants is equal to the sum of the state function of the reaction; change in enthalpy is a state function, so it applies here.
So, you're able to do part (c) now, right?

Chet
 
Would it look something like:
ΔH500=ΔHo+(500-298)*___kJ/mol*___mol
for each component of the reaction?
Where ___kJ/mol is the molar heat capacity at constant pressure, and ___mol is the quantity of substance
 
Ariel Jo said:
Would it look something like:
ΔH500=ΔHo+(500-298)*___kJ/mol*___mol
for each component of the reaction?
Where ___kJ/mol is the molar heat capacity at constant pressure, and ___mol is the quantity of substance
yes, but you would have to cool the reactant down to 298 and heat the products back up to 500.
 

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