Calculating derivatives of a Lagrangian density

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around calculating derivatives of a Lagrangian density, specifically in the context of Quantum Field Theory. Participants explore different methods for deriving the derivative of the Lagrangian with respect to the derivatives of the field, focusing on the Maxwell Lagrangian in a vacuum.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents two methods for calculating the derivative of the Lagrangian density, one using Euler's theorem on homogeneous functions and the other involving the product rule and index differentiation.
  • Another participant prefers the second method, performing calculations mentally to avoid lengthy algebra.
  • A third participant notes that a different Lagrangian yields the same equations of motion as the original and discusses the concept of total derivatives in this context, questioning how to find a specific vector that relates the two Lagrangians.
  • A participant expresses concern about the appropriateness of the forum for their question, suggesting a potential re-post in a different sub-forum.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing preferences for methods of calculation, with no consensus on the most efficient approach. There is also a discussion about the equivalence of different Lagrangians, but no agreement on the specifics of finding the vector related to the total derivative.

Contextual Notes

Participants do not fully resolve the mathematical steps involved in the derivative calculations, and there are assumptions about the properties of the Lagrangian that remain unexamined.

JPaquim
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Hey everyone,

I wasn't really sure where to post this, since it's kind of classical, kind of relativistic and kind of quantum field theoretical, but essentially mathematical. I'm reading and watching the lectures on Quantum Field Theory by Cambridge's David Tong (which you can find here), and I'm kind of stuck in calculating derivatives of the Langrangian density with respect to the derivatives of the field. For instance, the following Lagrangian (Maxwell in a vacuum):
$$ \mathcal{L} = -\frac{1}{2}(\partial_\mu A_\nu)(\partial^\mu A^\nu) + \frac{1}{2}(\partial_\mu A^\mu)^2 = -\frac{1}{2}(\partial_\mu A_\nu)(\eta^{\mu \alpha} \eta^{\nu \beta} \partial_\alpha A_\beta) + \frac{1}{2}(\eta^{\mu \nu}\partial_\mu A_\nu)^2 $$
I'm supposed to calculate \partial \mathcal{L}/\partial(\partial_\mu A^\nu). Now, I have two ways to think about this, one of them is to think of each term as a homogeneous function of degree 2 of the variable \partial_\mu A_\nu, and using Euler's theorem on homogeneous functions, multiply by 2 and take the derivatives of each term with respect to \partial_\mu A_\nu as if it wasn't being summed over, giving:
$$ \frac{\partial \mathcal{L}}{\partial(\partial_\mu A^\nu)} = -(\eta^{\mu \alpha} \eta^{\nu \beta} \partial_\alpha A_\beta) + (\eta^{\alpha \beta}\partial_\alpha A_\beta)(\eta^{\mu \nu}) = -\partial^\mu A^\nu + \eta^{\mu \nu} \partial_\alpha A^\alpha $$
This is a bit shady in my head, but apparently it works. The other way I think about it is significantly longer in terms of algebra, but basically involves actually differentiating with respect to a different set of indices, let's say \partial \mathcal{L}/\partial(\partial_\alpha A_\beta), use the product rule and the fact that \partial(\partial_\mu A_\nu)/\partial(\partial_\alpha A_\beta) = \delta^\alpha_\mu \delta^\beta_\nu, which gives the same result, but seems unnecessarily long.

So, how do you think about it? What's the quickest but still somewhat rigorously pleasing way to think about it that gives the right answer?

Cheers
 
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I use the second method and do all the calculations in my had to keep it from feeling unnecessarily long.
 
Ok, thank you for the feedback. BTW, the following Lagrangian gives rise to the same equations of the motion as the above one: $$ \mathcal{L} = -\frac{1}{2}(\partial_\mu A_\nu)(\partial^\mu A^\nu) + \frac{1}{2}(\partial_\nu A_\mu)(\partial^\mu A^\nu) $$
So they should differ only by a total derivative. I can test if something is a total derivative by plugging it into the Euler-Lagrange equations, and see if I get something that can be reduced to 0=0. In this case, there should be some vector B^\mu such that the difference between the two Lagrangians, is equal to \partial_\mu B^\mu, right? My question is, how can you find B^\mu (up to the addition of a divergence-less term)?
 
Should I reask this question in the Relativity sub-forum? I don't seem to be having much success here...
 

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