Calculating Line Integral on Curve C (IR3)

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around calculating a line integral over a specific curve C in three-dimensional space defined by the intersection of the equations x² + 2z² = 2 and y = 1. Participants explore various approaches to simplify the integral and evaluate it, discussing the implications of their calculations and assumptions.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that simplifications are possible due to the constant value of y, leading to the conclusion that the integral with respect to y is zero.
  • Another participant questions the correctness of the initial calculations and proposes a parameterization of the curve to facilitate the integration process.
  • There is a discussion about the interpretation of the integral and the presence of a variable t in the answer, which some participants argue is incorrect given the problem's context.
  • Several participants acknowledge mistakes in their calculations and clarify their reasoning regarding the terms in the integral, particularly the treatment of y and the implications for the integral's value.
  • One participant concludes that the integral reduces to twice the area of the ellipse formed by the curve, noting that terms cancel out due to the closed loop nature of the integral.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the correctness of the integral's evaluation and the simplifications applied. There is no consensus on the final value of the integral, with some claiming it is zero while others suggest it is not.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight potential errors in their calculations and the need for careful consideration of the terms involved in the integral. The discussion reflects ongoing refinements and corrections without reaching a definitive conclusion.

portuguese
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Consider that the curve C (IR3) is the intersection between x2+2z2=2 and y=1.

Calculate the line integral:

MmJ6C.png
Note: The curve C is traversed one time in the counter-clockwise direction (seen from the origin of IR3).

My attempt:

http://i.imgur.com/5EsJO.png

Can someone check? Thanks! :)
 
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If I have the question right, a lot of simplification is possible.
Given y = 1, the integral wrt y is zero, and y can be set to 1 elsewhere.
I also notice there's integral x.dz - integral z.dx. Hmmm... what do you think that might simplify to? Think of the geometric meaning, or of integration by parts.
 
But it is still correct?
 
The answer looks right. I haven't verified all the working (because it can all be done in couple of lines).
 
Thanks! Btw, I understand your simplifications, but I have to do this way... ;)
 
You have curve C defined in an xyz- coordinate system but you have u, y, and z in your integral. Did you intend
[tex]\int_C yzdx+ x^2dy- (x+ z)dz[/tex]?

Assuming that, since y= 1, a constant, dy= 0 so we can ignore the middle term.

I would be inclined to parameterize the curve by [itex]x= \sqrt{2}cos(\theta)[/itex], [itex]y= 1[/itex], [itex]z= sin(\theta)[/itex].

Then [itex]dx= -\sqrt{2}sin(\theta)d\theta[/itex] and [itex]dz= cos(\theta)d\theta[/itex].

The integral becomes
[tex]\int_0^{2\pi} sin(\theta)(-\sqrt{2}sin(\theta)d\theta)- (\sqrt{2}cos(\theta)+ sin(\theta))cos(\theta)d\theta[/tex]
[tex]= \int_0^{2\pi}[-\sqrt{2}(sin^2(\theta)+ cos^2(\theta))- \sqrt{2}sin(\theta)cos(\theta)]d\theta[/tex]
[tex]= -\sqrt{2}\int_0^{2\pi}[1+ sin(\theta)cos(\theta)]d\theta[/tex]

The answer you give, t/2- (1/4)sin(2t), can't possibly be correct because it is a function of t and there was not even a "t" in the problem! Did you intend to evaluate that at t= 0 and [itex]2\pi[/itex]?
 
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HallsofIvy said:
The answer you give, t/2- (1/4)sin(2t), can't possibly be correct because it is a function of t and there was not even a "t" in the problem! Did you intend to evaluate that at t= 0 and [itex]2\pi[/itex]?

The way I read it, the equations involving t are explanatory notes. The answer it gives earlier is "= 0".
 
Thank you. I had to keep scrolling from side to side!
 
Yeah, my answer is 0
 
  • #10
I've gone back and edited my first response, replacing the incorrect "2"s with [itex]\sqrt{2}[/itex]. However, I still do not get 0 as the integral.
 
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  • #11
I found my mistake. I wrote:
HallsofIvy said:
The integral becomes
[tex]\int_0^{2\pi} sin(\theta)(-\sqr{2}sin(\theta)d\theta)<span style="font-size: 22px">+ (\sqr{2}cos(\theta)+ sin(\theta))cos(\theta)d\theta</span>[/tex]
[tex]=...[/tex]
[tex] <br /> It's not 0, you're right. Thanks a lot! ;)[/tex]
 
  • #12
portuguese said:
I found my mistake.
And I've found mine :blushing:.
As HofI, I reasoned that we can get rid of the y terms, leaving:
[itex]\int_C zdx- (x+ z)dz = \int_C (zdx-xdz) + zdz[/itex]
Around a closed loop, zdz goes to zero (at each z, a dz cancels a -dz).
[itex]\int_C zdx[/itex] and [itex]\int_C xdz[/itex] are each the area inside the loop. So I thought these canceled too. But I overlooked that one will effectively run the opposite direction around the loop, so will add, not cancel. So the whole reduces to twice the area of the ellipse.
 

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