Calculating RiemannScalar in 2-D: Where to Start

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the calculation of the Riemann scalar in two dimensions, specifically focusing on how to express it in terms of the components of the Riemann tensor and the metric tensor. Participants explore various approaches and mathematical manipulations related to the symmetries of the Riemann tensor.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant seeks guidance on deriving the curvature scalar (RiemannScalar) using the expression 2\frac{R_1212}{det (g_μ√)}.
  • Another participant mentions the requirement to utilize the symmetries of the Riemann tensor in the derivation.
  • A different participant attempts to express the Riemann scalar without using connection coefficients, leading to complications in achieving the desired form.
  • One participant suggests writing out the individual components of the metric tensor to facilitate the calculations.
  • Another participant discusses the properties of the Riemann tensor, noting its anti-symmetry and the implications for the components in two dimensions.
  • One participant expresses uncertainty about a specific symmetry relation involving the Riemann tensor components but feels they are making progress.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the methods or steps to derive the Riemann scalar. Multiple competing approaches and uncertainties remain present throughout the discussion.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the dependence on the specific properties of the Riemann tensor in two dimensions, the potential complexity of the calculations, and the need for clarity on the symmetries involved.

ssamsymn
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Where should I start from to show that curvature scalar (RiemannScalar) is

2[itex]\frac{R_1212}{det (g_μ√)}[/itex]

?
 
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I am asked to show it by the symmetries of the Riemann tensor by the way.
 
Ok here is my thoughts, I try to stay away from the connection coefficients. So, I don't write the R tensors in form of [itex]\Gamma[/itex]'s. So I am trying:

R= g[itex]^{αβ}[/itex] R[itex]_{αβ}[/itex]
= g[itex]^{αβ}[/itex] R[itex]^{c}[/itex][itex]_{αcβ}[/itex]
= g[itex]^{αβ}[/itex] g[itex]^{αb}[/itex] R[itex]_{bαcβ}[/itex]

but now I can't have the R[itex]_{αβαβ}[/itex] form. Since it is 2-d, I put α=1 and β=2, but the c and b contractions doesn't give me what I want.

How can get that 2R[itex]_{1212}[/itex] ?
 
Last edited:
remember that gαβ is the inverse matrix of gαβ. And it's easy to take the inverse of a 2 x 2 matrix.

Write out completely the individual components of gαβ in terms of the gαβ components and see what you get.
 
My thoughts are to start by looking at the only completely anti-symmetric 2-form , which must have components

[tex] \left[ \begin{array}{cc}<br /> 0 & R \\<br /> -R & 0 \\<br /> \end{array} \right][/tex]

Now we know that R_abcd = 0 if a=b or c=d by the anti-symmetry properties, and also that R_abcd = R_bacd and that R_abcd = -R_abdc

This, and a little thought, gives us the value of all the components of R, which can be described as an anti-symmetric 2d array of two-forms, i.e. it looks like the array above, but the members of the array are the anti-symmetric two-forms.

Next we just have to compute the contractions to get the Riemann tensor and scalar, which I'm too lazy to do by hand.
 
Thank you very much.

Yes I rewrited everything with g lower index.

I am not sure about that symmetry:

R[itex]^{αβ}[/itex][itex]_{αβ}[/itex]= - R[itex]^{βα}[/itex][itex]_{βα}[/itex]

But I feel I am close to it. Thank you again.
 

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