Calculating Self and Mutual Inductance: A Derivation of Formulas Using Solenoids

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around deriving formulas for self and mutual inductance using solenoids, focusing on the application of Ampere's law and magnetic field calculations within the solenoid context.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Mathematical reasoning

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants explore the derivation of the magnetic field inside a solenoid using Ampere's law, questioning the integration path and assumptions about the magnetic field's uniformity. Some express uncertainty about the correctness of their calculations for self and mutual inductance.

Discussion Status

Some participants have provided clarifications and derivations that appear to assist others in understanding the concepts. There is acknowledgment of the derivations, but uncertainty remains regarding specific parts of the problem, particularly parts b) and c).

Contextual Notes

Participants note the importance of correctly applying Ampere's law and the implications of the number of turns in the solenoid, with some expressing confusion about the derivation process and the assumptions made.

toothpaste666
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Homework Statement


problem 5.png

Homework Equations

[/B]

∫BdL = μi

Φ = BA (flux)

S= NΦ/i (self inductance)

M = NΦ/i (mutual inductance)

The Attempt at a Solution



a) ∫BdL = μi
BL = μi
B = μi/L
since the solenoid has N1 turns
B = μiN1/L

b) flux Φ = BA = AμiN1/L
self inductance S = N1Φ/i = N1(AμiN1/L)/i = N1^2μA/L

c) mutual inductance M = N2Φ/i = N1N2μA/L
 
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toothpaste666 said:

Homework Statement


View attachment 83108

Homework Equations

[/B]

∫BdL = μi

Φ = BA (flux)

S= NΦ/i (self inductance)

M = NΦ/i (mutual inductance)

The Attempt at a Solution



a) ∫BdL = μi
BL = μi
B = μi/L
since the solenoid has N1 turns
B = μiN1/L

If i is the current flowing in the wire of the coil, the formula ∫BdL = μi is not correct. You need to show or explain the integration path .
 
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For part a), I would assume ##\vec B## is uniform within the solenoid and zero outside of it. If you place a rectangular Amperian loop ##\partial \Sigma## with corners ##a, b, c, d## along a cross section of this ideal solenoid, the left side of Ampere's law will give:

$$\oint_{\partial \Sigma} \vec B \cdot d \vec S = \int_a^b \vec B \cdot d \vec S + \int_b^c \vec B \cdot d \vec S + \int_c^d \vec B \cdot d \vec S + \int_d^a \vec B \cdot d \vec S$$

The first integral yields:

$$\int_a^b \vec B \cdot d \vec S = B \int_a^b dS = BL$$

Where ##B = |\vec B|## and ##L## is the length of ##\partial \Sigma## from ##a## to ##b##.

The third integral is taken along a segment of ##\partial \Sigma##, which lies outside of the solenoid. The magnetic field outside the solenoid is zero, hence the integral is zero.

The second and fourth integrals work out to zero because ##\vec B## is either orthogonal to ##d \vec S##, or is equal to zero outside of the solenoid.

Hence we can write:

$$\oint_{\partial \Sigma} \vec B \cdot d \vec S = BL$$

Now using the right side of Ampere's law:

$$BL = \mu_0 i_{enc}$$

The loop ##\partial \Sigma## encloses ##nL## turns where ##n## is the number of turns per unit length of the solenoid. Using this, the enclosed current can be re-written as:

$$i_{enc} = inL$$

Where ##i## is the actual current in the solenoid windings. Hence we can write:

$$BL = \mu_0 inL$$
$$B = \mu_0 in$$
$$B = \mu_0 iN_1$$

This is the magnetic field inside the solenoid.
 
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Zondrina said:
$$B = \mu_0 iN_1/L$$

This is the magnetic field inside the solenoid.
 
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Thank you that derivation helped a lot. I knew the formula from my book but the derivation of it confused me.

so its
BL = μienc
since ienc = iN1
so
BL = μiN1
B =μiN1/L

Are parts b) and c) ok? I am pretty sure I did part b) right but I am not as confident about part c)
 
toothpaste666 said:
Thank you that derivation helped a lot. I knew the formula from my book but the derivation of it confused me.

so its
BL = μienc
since ienc = iN1
so
BL = μiN1
B =μiN1/L

Are parts b) and c) ok? I am pretty sure I did part b) right but I am not as confident about part c)
Right on all counts incl. parts b and c!
 
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Thank you all
 
I always preferred the turns/length version of the derivation, but there is little difference in the final formulas.

Everything else looked good otherwise.
 

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