Calculating the energy-momentum tensor for Maxwell Lagrangian

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around calculating the energy-momentum tensor for the classical Maxwell Lagrangian, specifically addressing the appropriate method for taking derivatives in the context of the Lagrangian formulation of field theory. Participants explore the distinction between functional and partial derivatives in this context.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant seeks assistance in calculating the energy-momentum tensor using the formula involving derivatives of the Lagrangian.
  • Another participant suggests that the derivative in question should be interpreted as a partial derivative rather than a functional derivative, emphasizing the polynomial nature of the Lagrangian.
  • A different participant insists that the derivative should indeed be a functional derivative, arguing that the terms involved are functions of fields.
  • Another participant reiterates the point that Lagrangians are local functions, advocating for the use of partial derivatives and providing an example to illustrate the concept.
  • One participant provides a specific form of the Lagrangian and a rule for taking derivatives, indicating how to apply the derivative operator correctly.
  • There is a repeated emphasis on the distinction between functional and partial derivatives, with conflicting views on which is appropriate for the calculation at hand.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on whether to use functional or partial derivatives in the context of the Maxwell Lagrangian, indicating a lack of consensus on the correct approach to take in the calculation.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference the complexity of the derivative operations involved and the polynomial nature of the Lagrangian, highlighting the potential for confusion in interpreting the symbols used.

teddd
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Hi guys, can you help me with this?

I'm supposed to calculate the energy momentum for the classic Maxwell Lagrangian, \mathcal{L}=-\frac{1}{4}F^{\mu\nu}F_{\mu\nu} , where F_{\mu\nu}=\partial_\mu A_\nu-\partial_\nu A_\mu
with the well known formula:
T^{\sigma\rho}=\frac{\delta\mathcal{L}}{\delta \partial_{\sigma} A_\gamma}\partial^\rho A_\gamma-\mathcal{L}g^{\sigma\rho}

The point is that I'm not sure on how should I calculate the \frac{\delta\mathcal{L}}{\delta\partial_\sigma A_\gamma}\partial^\rho A_\gamma=-\frac{1}{4}\frac{\delta\left[(\partial^\mu A^\nu-\partial^\nu A^\mu)(\partial_\mu A_\nu -\partial_\nu A_\mu)\right]}{\delta\partial_\sigma A_\gamma}\partial^\rho A_\gamma term; i cannot figure out on which component should i derive.Can you help me?
 
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I don't think that should be a functional derivative, but to be honest, I have never bothered to study functional derivatives, so maybe I'm wrong. Anyway, if you can interpret it as a partial derivative, then it's easy. You just have to understand what function you're talking partial derivatives of. It's just a polynomial in several variables, and you know how to take partial derivatives of polynomial. The expression \frac{\partial\mathcal L}{\partial(\partial_\sigma A_\gamma)} looks scary, but it's just the nth partial derivative (for some integer n) of the polynomial \mathcal L.

Consider this simpler example first:
Fredrik said:
For example, in the case of a single particle in 1 dimension, the Lagrangian L:\mathbb R^3\rightarrow\mathbb R is defined by L(a,b,c)=\frac{1}{2}mb^2-V(a) for all a,b,c\in\mathbb R. L(q(t),\dot q(t),t) is just a number in the range of that function.
The denominator of \frac{\partial L}{\partial\dot q} just tells you which partial derivative you're dealing with.
\frac{\partial L}{\partial\dot q}=\frac{\partial}{\partial b}\bigg|_{a=q(t),\ b=\dot q(t),\ c=t}L(a,b,c)=(mb)_{a=q(t),\ b=\dot q(t),\ c=t}=m\dot q(t)
But maybe you knew all this already. I just explained the part that confuses everyone at first. I realize now that this is a bit tricky even if you know this.
 
It is a partial derivative there, don't use the delta, that symbol should stand for the functional (Ga^teaux derivative). So the partial derivative obeys the product law. Start differentiating from the left.
 
Well, that is a functional derivative, being \partial_\mu \phi a function!
 
teddd said:
Well, that is a functional derivative, being \partial_\mu \phi a function!



Lagrangians are local functions not functionals. So, you are dealing with partial derivatives. Cast the em Lagrangian in the form
<br /> \mathcal{L}= - \frac{1}{2} \eta^{\rho \sigma} \eta^{\mu \nu}( \partial_{\rho}A_{\mu} \partial_{\nu}A_{\sigma} - \partial_{\rho}A_{\mu}\partial_{\sigma}A_{\nu}).<br />
Now use
<br /> \frac{\partial}{\partial ( \partial_{\lambda}A_{\tau})} \left( \partial_{\alpha}A_{\beta}\right) = \delta^{\lambda}_{\alpha}\delta^{\tau}_{\beta}.<br />

Sam
 
teddd said:
Well, that is a functional derivative, being \partial_\mu \phi a function!
You need to look at what I said about how Lagrangians are polynomials. In the simple example I posted, \dot q is a function but \partial/\partial \dot q is just the partial derivative operator with respect to the second variable, and the function L that it's supposed to be applied to, is just a polynomial in 3 variables. You might as well write it as D_2, or D_2|_{(q(t),\ \dot q(t),\ t)} to indicate at what point the partial derivative of the polynomial is to be evaluated.
 
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