Calculating the order of an element in cycle notation

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around calculating the order of an element in the symmetric group \( S_n \) using cycle notation. Participants explore how to determine the order without repeated compositions of the element.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification, Mathematical reasoning

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss conjectures about the relationship between the length of cycles and the order of elements. Some express confusion about the correct interpretation of the order, particularly regarding the cycle length and its implications.

Discussion Status

The conversation includes attempts to clarify misunderstandings about the order of permutations, with some participants questioning the validity of their initial assumptions. There is an exploration of how to prove the relationship between cycle notation and order, indicating a productive direction in the discussion.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference specific examples from the group \( S_4 \) and discuss the implications of composing elements, highlighting a need for clarity on definitions and properties of permutations.

Bashyboy
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Homework Statement


Let ##g \in S_n## and suppose that we know the cycle notation for ##g##. How can one compute its order without repeatedly composing ##g## with itself?

Homework Equations

The Attempt at a Solution


[/B]
I took the group ##S_4## and tried formulating a conjecture. I composed several elements, such as (12), (13), (14), (1234), etc., and found that the order (the number of times one has to compose an element with itself to get the identity element) was equal to the length of the cycle minus one. I have been told that this is wrong, and have read elsewhere that the order is simply the length of the cycle.

Why is that so?
 
Last edited:
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Bashyboy said:

Homework Statement


Let ##g \in S_n## and suppose that we know the cycle notation for ##g##. How can one compute its order without repeatedly composing ##g## with itself?

Homework Equations

The Attempt at a Solution


[/B]
I took the group ##S_4## and tried formulating a conjecture. I composed several elements, such as (12), (13), (14), (1234), etc., and found that the order (the number of times one has to compose an element with itself to get the identity element) was equal to the length of the cycle minus one. I have been told that this is wrong, and have read elsewhere that the order is simply the length of the cycle.

Why is that so?

(12) has length 2. (12)(12)=(12)^2=identity. What's the order of (12)?
 
I figured it would be one, because you only have to compose (12) with itself once.
 
Bashyboy said:
I figured it would be one, because you only have to compose (12) with itself once.

Composing a function with itself once is taking it to the second power.
 
Oh, of course: the order is equal to the exponent.
 
So, how would you go about proving something like this?
 
Bashyboy said:
So, how would you go about proving something like this?
Calculate. Suppose you have a k cycle ##\sigma=(n_1,n_2, ..., n_k )##. Then what is ##\sigma(n_1)##? What is ##\sigma^2(n_1)##? Etc.
 
Last edited:

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