Calculating work done - Need help with this problem

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around calculating the work done by various forces acting on a box being pulled up an incline. Participants explore the application of physics concepts related to work, tension, gravity, friction, and normal force, with a focus on the correct angles and equations to use in the calculations.

Discussion Character

  • Homework-related
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant calculates the work done by tension using the formula Wd = Fcos(angle) * distance but is unsure about the correct angle to use.
  • Another participant corrects the angle for the work done by gravity, suggesting it should be 90 + 35 degrees, leading to a different calculation.
  • There is confusion about the work done by the normal force, with one participant asserting it is negative to the work done by gravity, while another clarifies that the normal force is perpendicular to the displacement, resulting in zero work done.
  • Participants debate the correct approach to calculating work done by friction, with differing opinions on whether it should involve the coefficient of kinetic friction and the normal force.
  • One participant suggests that the work done by friction should be calculated using the normal force and the coefficient of kinetic friction, while another emphasizes the direction of the frictional force being opposite to the displacement.
  • There are discussions about the components of forces acting on the box, particularly how to determine the normal force and its relationship to the gravitational force and tension.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the calculations for work done by gravity, normal force, and friction. There is no consensus on the correct approach to these calculations, and multiple competing views remain throughout the discussion.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference various angles and components of forces without resolving the assumptions regarding the normal force and its calculation. There are unresolved mathematical steps related to the work done by friction and the correct application of the equations.

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Homework Statement


A 12kg box is pulled 7m along a 35 degree incline by a person pulling a rope that makes a 20 degree angle with the incline. The tension in the rope is 100N and the coefficient of kinetic friction between the box and incline is 0.3

Calculate the work done by:
(i) Tension in rope
(ii) Gravity
(iii) Friction
(iv) normal force


Homework Equations


Wd = Fcos(angle in degrees) * distance


The Attempt at a Solution


Wd Tension = Tcos(angle) * distance - I'm not sure which angle to use for this one
= 100cos(20) * 7m
Wd gravity = -mgcos(angle) * distance
= - 12kg * 9.8 *cos(35) * 7
wd Friction = coeffiicientKE *mg* cos(angle) * distance
= 0.3 * 12 * 9.8 cos(35) * 7
wd Normal Force = mg cos(angle) * distance
= 12 * 9.8 cos 35 * 7

Is this right. Can anyone verify that it is or make the appropriate corrections please
 
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First one is correct, the rest are wrong.

The angle θ in the formula W = F⋅cos(θ)⋅d is the angle between the force and the displacement. For example, for the second one, if you draw a picture it's pretty easy to see that the angle between the gravity force and the displacement is 90 + 35, so W = F⋅cos (90 + 35)⋅d = mg⋅(-sin(35))⋅d.
 
ok thanks for that.

For the WD due to normal force i have worked out as it is negative to the work done due to gravity. Is that correct?

I'm not too sure how to do work done due to friction. I'm pretty sure it's not simply WDfriction = uk * mg * distance or would it be WDfriction = uk * mg* sin 45.
 
ncondon said:
For the WD due to normal force i have worked out as it is negative to the work done due to gravity. Is that correct?

No. The normal force is perpendicular to the displacement, so θ = 90 and cos(θ) = 0.

ncondon said:
I'm not too sure how to do work done due to friction. I'm pretty sure it's not simply WDfriction = uk * mg * distance or would it be WDfriction = uk * mg* sin 45.

What is the direction of the friction force? Why did you choose θ to be 45?
 
so the work done due to normal foce is 0 then since cos(90) =0?

come to thnk of it the work done due to friction should have been WDfriction = uk * mg * cos(0) therefore it should just simply be WDfriction = uk * mg?
 
ncondon said:
so the work done due to normal foce is 0 then since cos(90) =0?

Yes.

ncondon said:
come to thnk of it the work done due to friction should have been WDfriction = uk * mg * cos(0) therefore it should just simply be WDfriction = uk * mg?

No. What is the magnitude of the normal force? (It's not mg.)
 
well it wouldn't be the 100N from the tension force. other than that I'm not too sure what the normal force would be since i thought it would be mg. since I can't seem to find other information in the question. would the angle have been 0 but
 
or is is -mg?
 
The normal force is the normal (perpendicular) force exerted by the inclined plane on the block, and is perpendicular to the inclined plane. Find the total force on the block due to gravity and tension, and find it's component perpendicular to the inclined plane. Since the block stays on the inclined plane, the normal force must balance this component, and this condition determines the normal force.
 
Last edited:
  • #10
so to balance the forces out we do the equation:

Fgsin(-35) + Tcos(20) + n = 0
 
  • #11
No, how did you get that? The component of the tension force perpendicular to the incline is Tsin(20), and the component of the weight perpendicular to the incline is -mgcos(35).
 
  • #12
well i have worked n = mgcos(35) - Tsin(20). so is the frictional force * -1.
 
  • #13
oops i meant to say *0.3 then the distance
 
  • #14
Frictional force is normal force times the coefficient of kinetic friction, pointing opposite to the direction of motion.
 
  • #15
Frictonal force = 0.3(mgcos(35) - Tsin(20)) * -1

WdFriction = Frictional force * 7m

Is that right
 
  • #16
Well, the magnitude of the frictional force is just 0.3(mgcos(35) - Tsin(20)) without with -1, but you have to multiply by -1 when you calculate the work because it is pointing opposite to the displacement (cos(180) = -1).
 
  • #17
so eventually i have come up with the right calculations
 
  • #18
Yes.
 

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