Calculus II - Trigonometric Substitutions

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around evaluating the integral of dx/sqrt(x^2-49) using trigonometric substitutions, specifically the csc(theta) substitution. Participants are exploring the validity of this approach and comparing it with the more conventional sec(theta) substitution.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Assumption checking, Problem interpretation

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • The original poster attempts a csc(theta) substitution but expresses confusion over the correctness of their solution compared to the expected result. Some participants question the choice of substitution, suggesting that a sec(theta) substitution might be more appropriate. Others reflect on the challenges of following trigonometric substitutions in written form.

Discussion Status

Participants are actively engaging with the original poster's reasoning and attempting to clarify the steps involved in the substitution process. There is a recognition of the difficulties in following the logic presented, and some participants are offering to revisit the problem with clearer representations. No explicit consensus has been reached regarding the best substitution method.

Contextual Notes

There is mention of the original poster's preference for using csc(theta) despite the common practice of using sec(theta) for this type of integral. Participants also note the challenges of conveying trigonometric reasoning through text rather than visual aids.

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Homework Statement



Evaluate

integral dx/sqrt(x^2-49)

Homework Equations


The Attempt at a Solution



SEE POST #4 BELOW WITH ATTACHMENT TO VIEW MY SOLUTION EASIER TO READ

i was trying to use a csc(theta) substitution and I don't see how my logic and math below is flawed but apparently I'm getting a different answer, note that I wanted to try and evaluate this integral this way and not other ways and don't see how evaluating it this way is wrong as long as my intermediate steps are mathematically correct

integral dx/sqrt(x^2-49)
sense csc(theta)= hypotenuse/adjacent
let hypotenuse = x
and adjacent = 7
use the fact that hypotenuse= adjacent^2 + opposite^2
then opposite = sqrt(x^2-49)
then csc(theta)=x/7
then x = 7csc(theta)
use the fact that d/dx csc(theta) = -cot(theta)csc(theta)
dx/dtheta = -7cot(theta)csc(theta)
dx=-7cot(theta)csc(theta)dtheta
substitute dx and x back into the integral
integral[ (-7cot(theta)csc(theta)dtheta)/sqrt((7csc(theta))^2-49) ]
took out the constants and squared the term
-7*integral[ (cot(theta)csc(theta)dtheta)/sqrt(49csc(theta)^2-49) ]
factored out 49
-7*integral[ (cot(theta)csc(theta)dtheta)/sqrt(49(csc(theta)^2-1)) ]
use fact that cot(theta)^2=csc(theta)^2-1
-7*integral[ (cot(theta)csc(theta)dtheta)/sqrt(49cot(theta)^2) ]
evaluated the square root
-7*integral[ (cot(theta)csc(theta)dtheta)/(7cot(theta)) ]
"canceled" cot(theta)/cot(theta)=1 and took out constant and got 7/7=1
- integral csc(theta)dtheta
used the fact that integral csc(theta)dtheta = -ln(cot(theta)+csc(theta))
-*-ln(cot(theta)+csc(theta)) + c
it became positive
ln(cot(theta)+csc(theta)) + c
already established that csc(theta)= x/7
ln(cot(theta)+x/7) + c
use fact that cot(theta)=adjacent/opposite = 7/sqrt(x^2-49)
ln( 7/sqrt(x^2-49) + x/7 ) + c

so this gives me the wrong answer the correct one is
ln(sqrt(x^2-49)/7 + x/7 ) + c
but i really don't see how what i did is wrong...

SEE POST #4 BELOW WITH ATTACHMENT TO VIEW MY SOLUTION EASIER TO READ
 

Attachments

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Okay, this may not be it, but it's hard enough to follow trig substitutions, let alone follow it typed out instead of natural images, but...
Why are you making a CDC substation?
Thank you iPad... I had to leave that autocorrect.
Why are you using a csc substitution? Shouldn't it be a sec sub? X should equal 7sec(@).
Hey, maybe using @ for theta will catch on.
 
i don't know i wanted to try using a csc subsitution
i'll make a good image
 
here
i guess just see my reasoning above if you don't understand what i did
SEE ATTACHMENT IN THIS POST TO SEE A EASIER TO READ SOLUTION
note that in the last expression i switched around co secant and cotangent as far as there order in there previous expression but everything is correct with the last expression I believe
 

Attachments

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Gotta be a rebel, huh? Alright I'll look at it again. Let me get out an actual piece of paper here...

That was so much easier to follow! *still looking
 
Alright thank you ^_^ I hope you can read my chicken scratch in attachment #4 lolz, let me know if you can't
 
X=7csc@
X/7=csc@
Csc@=1/sin@ so
Sin@=7/x
Sin@=opp/hyp
So 7 is the opposite , your triangle pic is backwards.
 
Kinda had to figure it was something like that, since your answer was just kinda upside down.

I hate trig subs. Avoid 'em like the plague.
 
*smashes head into desk*
lol thanks

it's been to long sense i have done basic trig stuff
and you like i guess it's custom to use secant substitution in this case but i wanted to see if it really matter if i used co secant and I'm glad to see that it doesn't
 
  • #10
Hey, I learned you can use the *off brand* too. So it was worth my time. Thank you.
 

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