Can an Onto Function Exist for Every Subset of a Given Set?

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around the existence of an onto function from a set A to its power set P(A). The original poster presents a proof by contradiction approach, aiming to show that such a function cannot exist by constructing a specific subset B of A that cannot be the image of any element under the assumed onto function.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Assumption checking, Problem interpretation

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants explore the implications of assuming that the function f is onto, particularly focusing on the subset B defined as those elements of A that are not members of their corresponding images. Questions arise about the contradictions that emerge from both cases: whether a' is in B or not.

Discussion Status

The discussion is ongoing, with participants attempting to clarify the logical steps involved in the proof. Some guidance has been offered regarding the contradictions that arise from the definitions involved, but no consensus has been reached on the overall argument structure.

Contextual Notes

Participants note potential confusion regarding the definitions and implications of the function's properties, particularly in relation to the subset B and its relationship to the elements of A.

cragar
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Homework Statement


Given any set A, there does not exist a function f:A→P(A)
It wants us to do a proof by contradiction and assume there is an onto function.
For each element [itex]a \in A[/itex] f(a) is a particular subset
of A. The assumption that f is onto means that every subset of A appears as f(a)
for some [itex]a \in A[/itex] To arrive at a contradiction, we will produce
a subset [itex]B \subseteq A[/itex] that is not equal to f(a) for
any [itex]a \in A[/itex]
[itex]B=\{a\in A:a\notin f(a)\}[/itex]
If f is onto then it must be the case that B=f(a') for some a' in A.
the contradiction arises when we consider if a' is an element of B.
First show that the case that a' is in B leads to a contradiction.
Now finish the argument by showing that the case a' is not in B
is equally unacceptable.

The Attempt at a Solution


If a' is in B then a' is in A
and if f is onto then f(a') is in B
if f(a') is in B then f(a') is some a
in A but this is a contradiction
because we assumed that a was not in f(a).
If a' is not in B then it is not in A and therefore
it is not in anything.
Am I headed the right direction?
 
Last edited:
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cragar said:

The Attempt at a Solution


If a' is in B then a' is in A
and if f is onto then f(a') is in B
if f(a') is in B then f(a') is some a
in A but this is a contradiction
because we assumed that a was not in f(a).
If a' is not in B then it is not in A and therefore
it is not in anything.

This is somewhat confused.

Given [itex]f[/itex], [itex]B[/itex] consists of exactly those elements [itex]a \in A[/itex] which are not members of their image, [itex]f(a) \subset A[/itex]. However there could be other elements of A which are members of their image.

The point is that if [itex]f[/itex] is onto, then by definition [itex]B \subset A[/itex] must be the image of some [itex]a' \in A[/itex], so that [itex]f(a') = B[/itex]. Note that, by assumption, [itex]a' \in A[/itex]. Whether [itex]a' \in B[/itex] is another question.

So what happens if [itex]a' \in B[/itex]? That would mean that [itex]a'[/itex] is not a member of its image. But its image is B. This is a contradiction.

Now you need to show that a similar contradiction arises if you assume [itex]a' \notin B[/itex].
 
is image f(a)=a
 
cragar said:
If a' is in B then a' is in A
a' was chosen to be in A.
and if f is onto then f(a') is in B
a' was chosen such that f(a')=B. It cannot be "in B".
is image f(a)=a
a is an element of A; f(a) is a subset of A. They cannot be equal.
Start again at "If a' is in B then " and use the definition of B to deduce something about a'.
 

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