Can CO2 in the Earth's atmosphere sublimate into a solid?

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the possibility of carbon dioxide (CO2) sublimating into a solid state in Earth's atmosphere. Participants explore the conditions under which this might occur, including temperature and pressure factors, and reference related atmospheric phenomena.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants note that CO2 becomes solid at -78.5 C (-109.3 F) under 1 atmosphere of pressure, questioning if it can freeze out of the atmosphere given Earth's coldest recorded temperature.
  • Others argue that the low partial pressure of CO2 in the atmosphere (around 0.0004 atm) raises the freezing point to approximately -137 C, making sublimation unlikely under normal atmospheric conditions.
  • A participant mentions that noctilucent clouds, which form at high altitudes, might contain CO2 ice, but this presence would be minor compared to water ice.
  • Another participant discusses the concept of deposition as a phase transition from gas to solid, suggesting that sublimation cannot occur without passing through a liquid phase.
  • Some participants express skepticism about the feasibility of finding solid CO2 in Antarctica, citing the low atmospheric concentration and pressure conditions.
  • One participant humorously suggests that a good salesman could sell dry ice in Antarctica, implying the absurdity of the idea given the scientific context.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the conditions necessary for CO2 to sublimate into a solid. There is no consensus on whether CO2 can freeze out of the atmosphere, with multiple competing viewpoints remaining unresolved.

Contextual Notes

Discussions include references to atmospheric pressure and temperature conditions, as well as the implications of CO2's low concentration in Earth's atmosphere. Some participants also mention the carbonate-silicate cycle and its relevance to the topic.

Jim Stoffaire
Messages
2
Reaction score
0
CO2 becomes a solid at -78.5 C or -109.3 F. The coldest temperature ever recorded on Earth was on Antarctica at -89.2 C or -128.6 F. So is it possible for CO2 to literally freeze out of Earth's atmosphere under certain conditions?
If not then why not?
 
Earth sciences news on Phys.org
Google is your friend. A simple search on 'co2 freezing temperature' tells you why not in the first link <link removed> shown !
 
Last edited by a moderator:
On the topic of CO2 changing forms and leaving the atmosphere, I think its good for newcomers to read this about the topic https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbonate–silicate_cycle

I am not calling you a newcomer, specifically. I'm posting this for readers who are interested in the ways CO2 changes forms. The carbonate-silicate cycle is important to understand when thinking of a topic like sublimation of CO2.

I'm glad that it doesn't sublimate near atmospheric temp, otherwise 60 gigatons of carbon would become gaseous again whenever the temps rose. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_cycle I'm also linking readers to the Wikipedia page on the Carbon Cycle. If you don't like Wikipedia, then you can read through the numerous well-regarded articles that these pages reference.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Runaw...sitive_feedback_and_runaway_greenhouse_effect
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: Andrew John Davey and Evo
BvU said:
Google is your friend. A simple search on 'co2 freezing temperature' tells you why not in the first link <link removed> shown !
Unfortunately, that link is to an unacceptable source.
 
DrClaude said:
Unfortunately, that link is to an unacceptable source.
Beginner's mistake. Sorry about that. Also forgot to :welcome: Jim !

Remains that
Jim Stoffaire said:
CO2 becomes a solid at -78.5 C or -109.3 F.
if the CO2 vapour pressure is 1 atmosphere. With a partial pressure of around 0.0004 atm (0.3 mm Hg) that drops to about -137 C. (Exhaled air: 30 mm Hg, -110 C).
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: DrClaude and Evo
Liquid nitrogen is thought to be a component of noctilucent clouds. So that is one place in the atmosphere where you might find CO2 ice.
https://www.universetoday.com/95957...as-seen-from-the-international-space-station/

Noctilucent Clouds form at an altitude of about 80 km from water ice. The temperatures can be very low, but the air pressure is also very low.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noctilucent_cloud

Clouds of solid CO2 crystals have been observed in the Martian atmosphere. But there is very much less CO2 in the Earth's atmosphere. I would expect the minor presence of CO2 ice in noctilucent clouds would be masked by the water ice. Some CO2 might form in or on the surface of the water ice.

I remember seeing a paper on N2 and CO2 in upper atmosphere clouds above the poles in winter. I will try to find it.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: DrClaude, BvU and Evo
The coldest atmospheric temperatures are in the mesopause layer, and although they are colder than dry ice, the <1 ATM vapor pressure lowers the temperature necessary to produce sublimation, and more insurmountably, the CO2 atmospheric concentration is too low to form other than miniscule solid particles -- otherwise we would sometimes find dry ice in Antarctica.
 
A good salesman could sell dry ice in Antarctica to the gullible science types there.
 
  • #10
Jim Stoffaire said:
CO2 becomes a solid at -78.5 C or -109.3 F. The coldest temperature ever recorded on Earth was on Antarctica at -89.2 C or -128.6 F. So is it possible for CO2 to literally freeze out of Earth's atmosphere under certain conditions?
If not then why not?
Atmospheric pressure is another factor. Under water at high pressures CO2 could solidify.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 11 ·
Replies
11
Views
5K
Replies
17
Views
7K
Replies
7
Views
3K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
8K
Replies
1
Views
4K
  • · Replies 14 ·
Replies
14
Views
5K
Replies
15
Views
8K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
6K
Replies
1
Views
5K