Can Commandos Bypass a Force Field with an EM Emitter in Sci-Fi?

[drcathyc]

I am an aspiring science fiction writer. By training I'm a psychologist, so my knowledge of physics is somewhat limited. (I like understatement.) In the story I am currently writing, I have a military base surrounded by a force field, which I assume would be some sort of EM field. If I set up my commandos with a mobile EM emitter and have them set it to the same frequency as the base field, would they be able to pass through? If not, what could they do instead and still maintain secrecy?

 

[Homer Simpson]

I would make it a glass dome cleaned by that new windex paper towel. Only the base guards would know where the hatch is and everyone else woule bounce off it all confused.

 

[daveb]

An EM field isn't likely to keep out neutral matter (i.e., people), unless it's strong enough to strip electrons from atoms in folks getting too close.

 

[Astronuc]

I am an aspiring science fiction writer. By training I'm a psychologist, so my knowledge of physics is somewhat limited. (I like understatement.) In the story I am currently writing, I have a military base surrounded by a force field, which I assume would be some sort of EM field. If I set up my commandos with a mobile EM emitter and have them set it to the same frequency as the base field, would they be able to pass through? If not, what could they do instead and still maintain secrecy?

To reduce the field strength one would need to use and EM field of opposite polarity and some periodicity (frquency), and this would be detectable.

The only way to pass through a field undetected is to establish a volume (path) such that the field strength bounday conditions match the unperturbed field, or that the perturbation of the field is less than the noise/disturbance tolerance of the monitoring system.

 

[ZapperZ]

An EM field isn't likely to keep out neutral matter (i.e., people), unless it's strong enough to strip electrons from atoms in folks getting too close.

It also will not stop my high-powered THz laser from my compact SASE FEL.

Force fields in most sci-fiction novels and movies are over-rated.

Zz.

 

[drcathyc]

Thanks to all of you. You have given me much to think about. I wondered about the ability of an EM field to stop something neutral. An EM field would stop a charged particle beam, wouldn't it?

 

[Astronuc]

Thanks to all of you. You have given me much to think about. I wondered about the ability of an EM field to stop something neutral. An EM field would stop a charged particle beam, wouldn't it?

In a way - a magnetic field deflects ions - so it would disperse an ion beam. The charged particle beam cannot travel far without some intervening magnetic field to refocus it. The charges repel each other. The solution would be neutral beam - but then one has to deal with atmospheric dispersion.

It also will not stop my high-powered THz laser from my compact SASE FEL.

Force fields in most sci-fiction novels and movies are over-rated.

Zz.

This stuff takes me back to the days of the real Star Wars / SDI.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

No no no, you produce and direct gravito-photons via your handy-dandy Heim Force generator [from Ronco], and that causes a force to act on any mass that approaches the base. The closer it gets to the base the greater the force [Heim collimator are a bugger]. The way to counter the effect is to produce your own gravito-photons, but energy is a problem for mobile forces as compared to that of the base. However, they have to scan a large field with their gravito-photon beam, and you only have to sustain the counter force power demand [and the tidal forces acting on the mass] from the pulse for a few microseconds each second.

Right, Zapper?

 

[ZapperZ]

But I'm sure you all know that all of these things are so 1970's!

I much prefer to use weapons that use the extra dimensions to transfer their firepower. It circumvents all of these force fields that are only restricted to the 3D space. By making use of the extra dimensions that gravity "leaked" into, I can easily sneak in half of an entangled-pair glob, while I keep the other half isolated. By simply manipulating this, I can easily cause the other half of the entangled glob to instantaneously do my bidding.

Zz.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Drat! Out gedunkened.

 

[zoobyshoe]

Drat! Out gedunkened.

Not really. Rather than direct a horizontal gravito-proton beam at large, you could mine your perimeter with Heim Force mines. Once triggered they exert 20 or 30 g's instantly flatting the enemy into a pancake sort of thing before they can make a sound. These can all also be switched on at will to spoil the trajectory of any particle beams, not to mention ballistic ground weapons.

 

[drcathyc]

Ivan Seeking: what is a Heim Force generator?

 

[Astronuc]

Heim's Theory or QT seems to be discussed in various threads around PF.
Hyperspace engine (Heim's Quantum Theory) - https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=106059

 

[Ivan Seeking]

This was the original discussion which then links to the one above.
https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=105915

Of course this was all just for fun here in this thread, but the Heim QT story is getting interesting.

 

[zoobyshoe]

This was the original discussion which then links to the one above.
https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=105915
Of course this was all just for fun here in this thread, but the Heim QT story is getting interesting.

I though you'd made it up. I think for sci-fi purposes it's better to make up the force you need, and throw some German name on it.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

I though you'd made it up. I think for sci-fi purposes it's better to make up the force you need, and throw some German name on it.

Heathen

Really though, if I was serious about trying to write Sci-Fi using the Heim stuff, it would take a lot of study and thought. I was just shooting from the hip for fun.

 

[drcathyc]

I though you'd made it up. I think for sci-fi purposes it's better to make up the force you need, and throw some German name on it.

Zoobyshoe: That's the problem with so much s.f.: we make things up and throw some weird sounding name on it. The problem often occurs, however, that you folks who really have an understanding of science look at our work and go: "Oh come on!" Good s.f. develops out of known science: and is scrupulous in not violating known laws. That's why I asked for help here.

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

Zoobyshoe: That's the problem with so much s.f.: we make things up and throw some weird sounding name on it. The problem often occurs, however, that you folks who really have an understanding of science look at our work and go: "Oh come on!" Good s.f. develops out of known science: and is scrupulous in not violating known laws. That's why I asked for help here.

Actually most sci fi doesn't use much if any real science. Look at some of the most popular sci fi writers out there such as Philip K Dick who more or less used an odd psuedo-futuristic setting for his stories utilizing virtually no real science what so ever. William Gibson knew nothing about computers when he first started writing and is the father of "cyberpunk".
Hard Sci Fi is practically a separate genre. Greg Bear is the only example of Hard Sci Fi I know of personally.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Arthur Clarke used [uses] so much real science that he basically invented geostationary orbit, hence the communications satellite - hence the Clarke Belt.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

I have seen the three laws of robotics referenced by artificial intelligence gurus.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

We spend half a period in Quantum Mechanics discussing the idea behind Star Trek's [TNG] Heisenberg Compensators.

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

And a lot of Gibson's ideas are reflected in the computer/internet world of today from what I have been told.

I'm not saying that there is no science in sci fi just that there really isn't a whole lot of it and that doesn't necessarily make scientists roll their eyes at it. It does with some though I guess. I remember a number of PFers saying that they only like hard sci fi.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Well, for one, there is a lot of fantasy being sold as Sci-Fi these days.

 

[zoobyshoe]

Good sci-fi is not good science, it's good writing. It shouldn't be about gratifying physicists, but about all the usual human situations.

 

[drcathyc]

Good sci-fi is not good science, it's good writing. It shouldn't be about gratifying physicists, but about all the usual human situations.

Zoobyshoe: Any fiction writing must be good writing first, which means good story telling. But I think that good s.f. needs to keep its facts straight. We may speculate on what the future has to hold, but violating known laws ... well, I guess the true scientists then can make money writing books that point out all the errors in s.f. Several physicists have done so with Star Trek and Star Wars. Krauss comes to mind.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

To me there is science fiction, fantasy, and complete fiction. Complete fiction and fantasy rarely interests me.

The great sci-fi writers predict the future.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Consider for example that it was no accident that Jules Verne predicted a moon launch from Florida. He understood enough about Newtonian physics to realize the logic of being near the equator for a launch, and he knew enough about economics to predict that the US industrial base would make this possible.

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

The great sci-fi writers predict the future.

Or inspire it.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Or inspire it.

That too!

We had a thread about this not too long ago. I know there are a number of sites that list "Star Trek inventions" that we now have.

There was an interview some time ago with one of the physicists who consulted for Star Trek TNG. He laughed about how the writers would come to him with some scheme, and then he would have to try to come up with some kind of seemingly reasonable physics to explain it all. But they were also serious about incorporating as much real scientific theory into the story as they could.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Warp Drive, When?
http://www.nasa.gov/centers/glenn/research/warp/warp.html

And of course now we have to add that NASA is beginning to test the concept of a gravity populsion system and hyperspace engine, based on Heim's work, right now.