Can Electrons Travel Through Quartz?

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    Electrons Quartz
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the ability of electrons to travel through quartz, particularly focusing on their penetration depth depending on energy levels. Participants explore theoretical aspects, experimental implications, and mathematical relationships related to electron behavior in insulators like quartz.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that electrons, being unable to travel appreciable distances in insulators like quartz, would require extremely high energy to penetrate the material.
  • Others argue that electrons can indeed penetrate quartz and other insulators, with penetration depth being energy-dependent, suggesting that higher energy electrons (e.g., a few MeV) can travel several millimeters.
  • A participant requests information on the relationship between electron penetration depth and energy, speculating it may resemble the penetration depth of light in materials.
  • Another participant notes that calculating penetration depth can be model-dependent, mentioning the Kanaya-Okayama range relations as a phenomenological model for this relationship.
  • One participant expresses confusion regarding the maximum kinetic energy of electrons, questioning the applicability of classical kinetic energy equations at relativistic speeds.
  • A later reply clarifies that relativistic energy calculations must be considered, as classical equations do not hold when velocities approach the speed of light.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the extent to which electrons can penetrate quartz, with multiple competing views on the energy requirements and the models used to describe penetration depth.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the dependence on specific models for penetration depth calculations and the unresolved nature of relativistic effects on electron energy.

gareth
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I'm wondering can electrons travel through quartz at any great distance.

I'm assuming since quartz is an insulator they will not be able travel any apreciable distance within the material.

Say if we got some extremely high energy electrons and fired them at a quartz slide, would any of them penetrate the slide.

My gut feeling is no, unless you're dealing with rediculously high energy electrons or a very thin plate of quartz.

Any thoughts?
 
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gareth said:
I'm wondering can electrons travel through quartz at any great distance.

I'm assuming since quartz is an insulator they will not be able travel any apreciable distance within the material.

Say if we got some extremely high energy electrons and fired them at a quartz slide, would any of them penetrate the slide.

My gut feeling is no, unless you're dealing with rediculously high energy electrons or a very thin plate of quartz.

Any thoughts?

First of all, electrons tend to have a larger penetration depth through an insulator than they do through metals. This is because since metals have a larger density of free electrons, the electron-electron collision tends to be energy-absorbing. This is compared to electron-ion collision that predominantly occurs in insulators, in which the electron regains almost all of its original energy.

Secondly, yes, electrons can penetrate quartz through over a certain length, or even ordinary glass, for that matter (why just quartz?). It is very energy-dependent. For electrons with energy less than, say 5 keV, the penetration is of the order of microns. But if you have electrons with energy of a few MeV, it can be of the order of millimeters.

Zz.
 
Thanks ZapperZ,

Could ou recommend a text, or maybe just tell me the equation, of the relationship between penetration depth of an electron and the energy?

I assume it will be similar to the equation describing the penetration depth of light into a material, but with a very shorter wavelength for the electron.

Gareth
 
This isn't that trivial, since it can be model dependent. For example, there are models in which you have to do a Monte Carlo analysis to obtain the penetration depth, rather than settling for an analytical expression.

Having said that, there are models such as the Kanaya-Okayama[1] range relations that provide an almost phenomenological model for the dependence of the electron penetration depth as a function of several parameters, including the incident energy.

[tex]\lambda = \frac{0.0276AE^{1.67}}{Z^{0.89}d}[/tex]

where [itex]\lambda[/itex] is the penetration depth, A is the atomic mass, E is the incident energy, Z is the average atomic number of the solid, and d density of the material.

Zz.

[1] K. Kanaya and S. Okayama, J. Phys. D v.5, p.43 (1972).
 
I tried a few rough calculations but I'm definitely missing something fundamental here;

Electrons have mass, so they can't go faster than c, so the maximum kinetic energy as calculated from 0.5mv^2 is around 0.26MeV. Surely this isn't the absolute limit for an electron. I could have sworn I saw papers qouting higher values than this.

What am I missing?
 
gareth said:
I tried a few rough calculations but I'm definitely missing something fundamental here;

Electrons have mass, so they can't go faster than c, so the maximum kinetic energy as calculated from 0.5mv^2 is around 0.26MeV. Surely this isn't the absolute limit for an electron. I could have sworn I saw papers qouting higher values than this.

What am I missing?

This is now a different question. You need to look at relativistic energy calculation, and why 1/2 mv^2 doesn't work as v approaches c.

Zz.
 

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