Can entropy be used to measure time?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion explores the concept of using entropy as a measure of time, questioning whether a device could be created to calculate entropy in a system and thus provide a numerical value for time. The conversation touches on theoretical implications and practical applications of this idea.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that entropy, known as the arrow of time, could be used to measure time through a device that calculates entropy in a set system.
  • Another participant questions the reliability of the system proposed for measuring entropy, challenging its accuracy compared to current atomic clocks.
  • A participant mentions that while entropy is linked to the arrow of time qualitatively, it does not imply a quantitative measure of time.
  • One participant proposes that a small computer could measure entropy in a clock, arguing that inaccuracies would only arise if the laws of thermodynamics were violated.
  • Another participant reflects on the nature of clocks, suggesting that all clocks could be viewed in terms of their entropy states, with a wound clock having fewer microstates than an unwound one.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the feasibility and accuracy of using entropy as a measure of time. There is no consensus on whether this approach could be practically implemented or if it would surpass existing timekeeping methods.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the qualitative nature of the relationship between entropy and time, indicating that the discussion relies on assumptions about the reliability of the systems being considered for entropy measurement.

dbmorpher
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Hello dbmorpher here,
I was looking at some articles on entropy and wondered, could this be used to calculate time?
Entropy is known as the arrow of time, figurative I know but could actually be used to measure.
If there was a device that calculated the entropy in a set system couldn't it automatically calculate it and give a numerical value?
This would need a set system for all clocks but would render any other non- atomic clocks obsolete because it is based on measurements and calculations instead of gears and circuitry.

I would like to know if what I said in that last sentence could happen and if I could make one myself.

I found this
http://www.eoht.info/page/Entropy+clock
But I do not understand it very well.
 
Science news on Phys.org
This is VERY puzzling. What system do you wish to measure the entropy of that is SO reliable as to be used as a clock? And how would this be more accurate than current atomic/Cs clock?

BTW, the naive link between entropy and the arrow of time is a QUALITATIVE relationship, not a QUANTITATIVE one. Nothing here says that entropy can provide an accurate MEASURE of time.

Zz.
 
Right. I could use a pot of water on my stove as a clock, but it would be cumbersome and not all that accurate.
 
Well from what I have learned entropy is measured not observed, therefore a small calculator sized computer could be fitted to a clock and measure the entropy in the system, the only way for the clock to be inaccurate is if the laws of thermodynamics broke.
Refute me if I am wrong.
 
ZapperZ said:
What system do you wish to measure the entropy of that is SO reliable as to be used as a clock?

Can you not think of all clocks in this way? A wound clock has less microstates available to it than an unwound clock. A clock is that which measures entropy change reliably. Reliably being defined as: it progresses in some constant ratio to other clocks.
 

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