Can Gas Particles Ever Stop Moving?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the behavior of gas particles in a closed container, specifically questioning whether gas particles can ever stop moving and the implications of energy transfer and thermodynamics on this behavior. The scope includes theoretical considerations related to the kinetic molecular theory (KMT) and the second law of thermodynamics.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions at what point gas particles will stop moving, referencing the second law of thermodynamics and the concept of kinetic energy.
  • Another participant observes that gas in a stirred bottle eventually settles at the bottom, suggesting a potential analogy to gas behavior in containers.
  • A response asserts that energy can be transferred indefinitely through perfectly elastic collisions, challenging the idea that this would violate the second law of thermodynamics.
  • There is confusion regarding the observations made about gas behavior, with one participant admitting to misunderstanding the analogy used and acknowledging the difference between gas and aerosol behavior.
  • Clarification is provided that smoke consists of suspended solid particles, not gas, and that its settling behavior differs from that of true gases.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the behavior of gas particles and the implications of energy transfer, with no consensus reached on whether gas particles can stop moving or how energy transfer operates in this context.

Contextual Notes

The discussion includes assumptions about the nature of gas and aerosol, as well as the definitions of kinetic energy and thermodynamic laws, which remain unresolved.

davgonz90
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We know that gas particles move very quickly in random motions in whatever container they are in. My question is: assuming that no gas particles ever exit or enter the container, at what point will the gas particles stop moving? From what I think I understand about the second law of thermodynamics, nothing can have an infinite amount of kinetic energy- not even gas particles, right?

P.S. I know that, according to the KMT, gas particles collide and transfer their energy to each other. But even then, can this energy really be transferred forever? Wouldn't this violate the second law? The question is probably very fundamental, but at the moment, it's torquing my brain. ?:)
 
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I have noticed a stirred up bottle of some gas will eventually have the gas sit tightly on the bottom and it wasn't a perfectly isolated container, it was just a plastic bottle. When you open in pool, the balls in the middle get a punch and then they move around chaotically and eventually stop because of friction. Should the end outcome be any different in the container?
 
davgonz90 said:
can this energy really be transferred forever?

Yes.

Wouldn't this violate the second law?

No. These are perfectly elastic collisions.
 
nuuskur said:
I have noticed a stirred up bottle of some gas will eventually have the gas sit tightly

And how you observed the gas inside of the bottle?

on the bottom and it wasn't a perfectly isolated container, it was just a plastic bottle. When you open in pool, the balls in the middle

Huh?

get a punch and then they move around chaotically and eventually stop because of friction. Should the end outcome be any different in the container?

No idea what you are talking about, whatever you posted doesn't make any sense.
 
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Borek said:
And how you observed the gas inside of the bottle?
Huh?
No idea what you are talking about, whatever you posted doesn't make any sense.
Yes, it doesn't make any sense, I thought the gas particles would behave exactly as the "macroscopic" world would, but it doesn't so I stand corrected, thanks.

The gas was smoke in a plastic bottle, came back a few hours later, the smoke was sitting tightly on the bottom part of the bottle. Although, I would have to disregard that as an analogy, because I can't exactly pinpoint whether smoke is a gas or not.
Sorry about the nonsense.
 
What you have seen was an aerosol setting down. Nothing to do with the gas.
 
nuuskur said:
Yes, it doesn't make any sense, I thought the gas particles would behave exactly as the "macroscopic" world would, but it doesn't so I stand corrected, thanks.

The gas was smoke in a plastic bottle, came back a few hours later, the smoke was sitting tightly on the bottom part of the bottle. Although, I would have to disregard that as an analogy, because I can't exactly pinpoint whether smoke is a gas or not.
Sorry about the nonsense.
Smoke is, by definition, suspended solid particles of combustion by-product. So yes they are macroscopic, no they are not gas. If you left it long enough, (or if you were able to extract the gas from the bottle), you would have soot on the bottom.
 

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