Can Gauss-Jordan Elimination simplify a matrix into a reduced row echelon form?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the process of using Gauss-Jordan elimination to simplify a matrix into reduced row echelon form. Participants are exploring the steps involved in performing row operations on a given matrix and addressing confusion regarding the notation and execution of these operations.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Homework-related
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Askor presents a matrix and asks for guidance on how to apply row operations to achieve reduced row echelon form.
  • Some participants suggest specific row operations, such as subtracting fractions of rows from others, but there is confusion about the notation and execution of these operations.
  • A mod note corrects a perceived typo in the matrix, indicating that row swapping may be necessary to facilitate the elimination process.
  • Participants express uncertainty about the differences in results from various steps and seek clarification on how to proceed with the elimination process.
  • There are multiple attempts to clarify the notation used for row operations, with some participants questioning the correctness of the expressions provided.
  • One participant describes their step-by-step process but is unsure how to transition from a lower triangular matrix to an upper triangular matrix.
  • Another participant provides a suggestion on how to use the bottom row to eliminate entries above it, introducing specific notation for clarity.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the best approach to perform the row operations, and there is ongoing confusion regarding the notation and steps involved in the elimination process. Multiple competing views on how to proceed remain evident throughout the discussion.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations in the clarity of the notation used for row operations, and some steps in the elimination process are not fully resolved, leading to different interpretations of the results.

askor
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By using row operation, how can

##
\left(
\begin{array}{rrrr|r}
2 & 0 & -1 & 0 & 0 \\ 6 & 0 & 0 & -2 & 0 \\ 0 & 2 & -2 & -1 & 0
\end{array}
\right)
##

be

##
\left(
\begin{array}{rrrr|r}
1 & 0 & 0 & -\frac{1}{3} & 0 \\ 0 & 1 & 0 & -\frac{7}{6} & 0 \\ 0 & 0 & 1 & -\frac{2}{3} & 0
\end{array}
\right)
##

?

I am trying to write my attempt on this problem but I don't know how to write matrix with row operation in Latex. Please show me example.
 
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Hi askor, :welcome:

There's a link to the LateX Tutorial in the homework guidelines and an extensive one in general math.
Is there a speecific question you need answered ?

Your matrix looks rather straightforward to me:
Subtract 1/3 x row 2 from row 1 to get 2 x new row 3.
Add row 1 to new row 3 to get 2 x new row 1
Add 2 x new row 3 to row 3 to get 2 x new row 2

But I expect you already found this ? If so where do you get stuck ?

--
 
Mod note: Corrected what appeared to be a typo in the second vector, below. I'm almost certain that the corrected version was what was intended.
It should be obvious, seeing \begin{pmatrix}0 \\ 0 \\ 2 \end{pmatrix} in the middle column of the original matrix and \begin{pmatrix} 0 \\ 1 \\ 0 \end{pmatrix} in the result you want, that you will want to swap the second and third rows. If you do that as the first step, you get \left(\begin{array}{cccc|c} 2 & -1 & 0 & 1 & 0 \\ 0 & 2 & -2 & -1 & 0 \\ 6 & 0 & 0 & -2 & 0 \end{array}\right).

The rest should be easy.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
BvU said:
Subtract 1/3 x row 2 from row 1 to get 2 x new row 3.
Add row 1 to new row 3 to get 2 x new row 1
Add 2 x new row 3 to row 3 to get 2 x new row 2

But I expect you already found this ? If so where do you get stuck ?

--

Could you write it in matrix rather than words? I am confuse.

My attempt is:

##
\left(
\begin{array}{rrrr|r}
2 & 0 & -1 & 0 & 0 \\ 6 & 0 & 0 & -2 & 0 \\ 0 & 2 & -2 & -1 & 0
\end{array}
\right)
##

R1 divided by 2, R2 swap to R3, then I get

##
\left(
\begin{array}{rrrr|r}
1 & 0 & -\frac{1}{2} & 0 & 0 \\ 0 & 2 & -2 & -1 & 0 \\ 6 & 0 & 0 & -2 & 0
\end{array}
\right)
##

R2 divided by 2, then I get

##
\left(
\begin{array}{rrrr|r}
1 & 0 & -\frac{1}{2} & 0 & 0 \\ 0 & 1 & -1 & -\frac{1}{2} & 0 \\ 6 & 0 & 0 & -2 & 0
\end{array}
\right)
##

R3 - 6R1, then I get lower triangular matrix

##
\left(
\begin{array}{rrrr|r}
1 & 0 & -\frac{1}{2} & 0 & 0 \\ 0 & 1 & -1 & -\frac{1}{2} & 0 \\ 0 & 0 & 3 & -2 & 0
\end{array}
\right)
##

Why the result is different?
 
Last edited:
askor said:
Could you write it in matrix rather than words? I am confuse.
Which one is confusing you ?

Subtract 1/3 x row 2 from row 1 to get 2 x new row 3 is so clear to me that I don't know how to simplify it!
Perhaps:

Subtract 1/3 x row 2 from row 1 to and divide the resulting row by -2 to get new row 3​
?
 
BvU said:
Which one is confusing you ?

Subtract 1/3 x row 2 from row 1 to get 2 x new row 3 is so clear to me that I don't know how to simplify it!
Perhaps:

Subtract 1/3 x row 2 from row 1 to and divide the resulting row by -2 to get new row 3​
?

Could you write it in my style as above.
 
I could, but if it is unclear the way I write it now, you still have a problem. What is it that makes it undecipherable for you ?
 
You said "Subtract 1/3 x row 2 from row 1..."

If written by R1 = row 1, R2 = row 2, which one of below is correct according your above statement?

1/3*R2 - R1

or

R1 - 1/3*R2
 
R1 - 1/3*R2

Gives you ## (0,0,-1, {2\over 3}) ## which is minus the new row 3. (new meaning: as in the final answer)

So not +2 or -2 x new row 3 as I stupidly typed - twice . I fixed the - sign in post #5 and now I fix the 2 that should have been a 1. o:)

Sorry for the mistakes. No wonder you get confused.
 
  • #10
OK, R1 - 1/3*R2 give me

##
\left(
\begin{array}{rrrr|r}
0 & 0 & -1 & \frac{2}{3} & 0 \\ 6 & 0 & 0 & -2 & 0 \\ 0 & 2 & -2 & -1 & 0
\end{array}
\right)
##

Now, what is the next step?
 
  • #11
From what you post now (#10): line 3 minus 2 x line 1 is ## (0,2,0,-7/3)##, then divide by 2 to get line 2 in the answer in post #1.
 
  • #12
Why the result is different with the post #4?
 
  • #13
askor said:
Why the result is different with the post #4?
In that post you have not finished the computations!
 
  • #14
Svein said:
In that post you have not finished the computations!

How to finish it? Please tell step-by-step.

Here is my step:

##
\left(
\begin{array}{rrrr|r}
1 & 0 & -\frac{1}{2} & 0 & 0 \\ 0 & 1 & -1 & -\frac{1}{2} & 0 \\ 0 & 0 & 3 & -2 & 0
\end{array}
\right)
##

R3 / 3

##
\left(
\begin{array}{rrrr|r}
1 & 0 & -\frac{1}{2} & 0 & 0 \\ 0 & 1 & -1 & -\frac{1}{2} & 0 \\ 0 & 0 & 1 & -\frac{2}{3} & 0
\end{array}
\right)
##

The matrix is already in form of Lower triangular matrix, how to obtain the upper triangular matrix?

What next?
 
  • #15
askor said:
How to finish it? Please tell step-by-step.

Here is my step:

##
\left(
\begin{array}{rrrr|r}
1 & 0 & -\frac{1}{2} & 0 & 0 \\ 0 & 1 & -1 & -\frac{1}{2} & 0 \\ 0 & 0 & 3 & -2 & 0
\end{array}
\right)
##

R3 / 3

##
\left(
\begin{array}{rrrr|r}
1 & 0 & -\frac{1}{2} & 0 & 0 \\ 0 & 1 & -1 & -\frac{1}{2} & 0 \\ 0 & 0 & 1 & -\frac{2}{3} & 0
\end{array}
\right)
##

The matrix is already in form of Lower triangular matrix, how to obtain the upper triangular matrix?

What next?
Use the bottom row (3rd column entry) to eliminate the entries directly above it.

Some notation I have seen is this:
##R_2## ← ##R_2 + R_3##
##R_1## ← ##R_1 + \frac 1 2 R_3##
The arrow, ←, means "is replaced by".
 
  • #16
Mark44 said:
Use the bottom row (3rd column entry) to eliminate the entries directly above it.

Some notation I have seen is this:
##R_2## ← ##R_2 + R_3##
##R_1## ← ##R_1 + \frac 1 2 R_3##
The arrow, ←, means "is replaced by".

OK, I rewrite it with matrix

##
\left(
\begin{array}{rrrr|r}
1 & 0 & -\frac{1}{2} & 0 & 0 \\ 0 & 1 & -1 & -\frac{1}{2} & 0 \\ 0 & 0 & 1 & -\frac{2}{3} & 0
\end{array}
\right)
##

##R_2## ← ##R_2 + R_3##

##
\left(
\begin{array}{rrrr|r}
1 & 0 & -\frac{1}{2} & 0 & 0 \\ 0 & 1 & 0 & -\frac{7}{6} & 0 \\ 0 & 0 & 1 & -\frac{2}{3} & 0
\end{array}
\right)
##

##R_1## ← ##R_1 + \frac 1 2 R_3##

##
\left(
\begin{array}{rrrr|r}
1 & 0 & 0 & -\frac{2}{6} & 0 \\ 0 & 1 & 0 & -\frac{7}{6} & 0 \\ 0 & 0 & 1 & -\frac{2}{3} & 0
\end{array}
\right)
##
 
  • #17
Well done !
 

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