Can high energy radiation create momentum?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of momentum in high-energy radiation, specifically gamma radiation and its effects on atoms and other matter. Participants explore whether such radiation can exert force or momentum on an atom, particularly in a hypothetical scenario where the atom is isolated from gravitational influences.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant proposes that when an atom is bombarded with gamma radiation, the ejection of an electron would exert a reverse thrust on the atom, suggesting that high-energy radiation could move an atom if no other forces are present.
  • Another participant states that all electromagnetic radiation has associated momentum, referencing the equation p=h/λ.
  • Some participants question whether matter could be repulsed by light if no other forces are applied, linking this to the concept of light pressure.
  • It is noted that when a photon is absorbed by an atom, momentum is transferred, and if an electron is ejected, the nucleus will move in the opposite direction to conserve total momentum.
  • One participant mentions the phenomenon of light pressure, using the example of comet tails pointing away from the Sun as a demonstration of this effect.
  • There is a discussion about whether photons having momentum implies they must have mass, with some participants clarifying that photons have momentum but not mass.
  • A participant references classical electromagnetism, suggesting that the force exerted by electromagnetic waves on a reflector can be calculated similarly to quantum mechanics.
  • Another participant raises a hypothetical scenario about a planet ejected beyond the gravitational influence of its galaxy and questions whether light from the galaxy could repulse the planet.
  • One participant counters that there is no region beyond the reach of gravity, arguing that gravitational force and light intensity diminish at the same rate, thus negating the proposed effect.
  • It is mentioned that small objects near a star are repulsed by light pressure, which is also the principle behind solar sails, while noting that larger objects like Earth are not significantly affected due to their mass.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a range of views on the effects of high-energy radiation on momentum and the implications of light pressure. There is no consensus on whether light can repulse larger objects or the implications of photons having momentum without mass. The discussion remains unresolved with competing perspectives on these concepts.

Contextual Notes

Some statements rely on assumptions about the conditions under which light pressure operates and the definitions of mass and momentum in the context of photons. The discussion includes unresolved questions about the implications of these concepts in various scenarios.

SuperM4ssive
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Suppose there's an atom in deep space, beyond the reach of gravity of any close-by galaxies. When this atom is bombarded with gamma radiation, and an electron is ejected, wouldn't this ejection also exert reverse 'thrust' on the atom itself, in accordance to Newton's 3rd law? In other words, would gamma or high energy x-ray radiation be capable of moving an atom if no other forces are exerted? And if not, why not?
 
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p=h/lambda so All electromagnetic radiation has associated with it some momentum.
 
nucl34rgg said:
p=h/lambda so All electromagnetic radiation has associated with it some momentum.

Does that mean that, if no other (sufficient) forces are applied, matter could be repulsed by light?
 
Each photon has momentum and this will transfer to an atom as it is absorbed. But if an electron is ejected at high speed, the nucleus will also head off in the opposite direction so that total momentum is conserved. The total momentum, after the event will be that of the original photon although the individual momentum of the electron may be higher than the individual momentum of the photon.

The phenomenon of light pressure is well known and is part of the reason why Comets' tails are always pointing away from the Sun and not, as one might think, trailing out behind the comet.
 
sophiecentaur said:
The phenomenon of light pressure is well known and is part of the reason why Comets' tails are always pointing away from the Sun and not, as one might think, trailing out behind the comet.

Cool film showing stuff pushed by light:

220px-Schwassman-Wachmann3-B-HST.gif


Material coming off Component B of 73P/Schwassmann–Wachmann which broke up starting in 1995, as seen by the HST. This animation covers a span of three days.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comet
 
Very cool, but wouldn't that imply that photons have mass? If mass is 0 then momentum must be 0? Or am I missing something?
 
No. Photons have Momentum (h/λ) but not mass. Counter-intuitive, maybe, but true.
 
Weird, but ok. How does that work then? Curiosity gland is pumping :D
 
Aamof, it works in Classical Electromasgnetism, too. If you do the sums for a classical electromagnetic wave hitting a metal reflector, it is not too hard to show that there is a force. The value of this force turns out to be the same as if you do the same with QM. That gobsmacked me even more, actually. It's there in my old Panofski and Phillips Electomag textbook from the 60s.
 
  • #10
Well, I asked :P Anyway, putting it all together, if a planet were to somehow be ejected beyond the reach of gravity of its own galaxy, would the spectrum of light coming from the galaxy repulse the planet away?
 
  • #11
There is nowhere "beyond the reach of gravity" of anything. Both the gravitational force and the intensity of the light will diminish at the same rate (the inverse square law) so your suggested effect couldn't occur. The forces would be in the same proportion as they are right near the Sun or a Galaxy.
 
  • #12
SuperM4ssive said:
Well, I asked :P Anyway, putting it all together, if a planet were to somehow be ejected beyond the reach of gravity of its own galaxy, would the spectrum of light coming from the galaxy repulse the planet away?

Small objects and particles near a star are repulsed away from it due to light pressure. This is also the reason a solar sail works. The less massive an object is the greater the effect of radiation pressure will be. This is why the Earth isn't pushed away from the sun, it is far too massive!
 

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