Can I Just Change the Coil in Circuits to Find the Relationship Between B and r?

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around finding the relationship between the magnetic field strength (B) and the radius (r) in a circuit involving coils. Participants are exploring the implications of changing the radius and the coil separation on the validity of the given expression for B.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Assumption checking, Conceptual clarification

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss whether changing the coil entirely is necessary to vary the radius and question the practicality of such an approach. There is a focus on the importance of the coil separation (d) and its relationship to the radius (r) in determining the magnetic field.

Discussion Status

Some participants have provided insights regarding the fixed ratio of coil separation to radius and emphasized the need to maintain this ratio while testing the relationship. There is an ongoing exploration of how to experimentally validate the relationship without disrupting the setup.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the expression for the magnetic field is valid only for a specific ratio of coil separation to radius, which complicates the approach to testing the relationship. The discussion highlights the need for a deeper understanding of the underlying principles before proceeding with experiments.

PhysicStud01
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Homework Statement


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Homework Equations


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The Attempt at a Solution


I want to find the relationship between B and r. So, i have to change r.
Do I just change the coil completely with a new one? I believe that this could greatly affect the set up and I don;t think it is practical. OR is there a basic thing that I am missing?
 

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It is not at all practical to change ##r##, I agree. You are missing that the coil separation ##d## must be part of the expression for the B-field at the midpoint. The expression that you are given is valid for only for a fixed ratio ##\beta = d/r##. Thus, if you want to test the relationship, you must vary both ##r## and ##d## in a way that keeps the ratio constant. In other words, the relationship you are given appears to have ##r## as an independent variable, but it is not independent. The numerical factor 0.72 implicitly contains the ratio ##\beta##. I strongly recommend that you derive a general expression for the B-field at the midpoint when the separation is ##d## and the radius is ##r##. It will help you see what's going on and see where the factor 0.72 is coming from.

One thing you could do experimentally is to test the given expression is to measure the B-field at the midpoint as a function of coil separation ##d## and find for what value the given relationship is valid. However, I am not sure that this is what the exercise expects you to do.
 
kuruman said:
It is not at all practical to change ##r##, I agree. You are missing that the coil separation ##d## must be part of the expression for the B-field at the midpoint. The expression that you are given is valid for only for a fixed ratio ##\beta = d/r##. Thus, if you want to test the relationship, you must vary both ##r## and ##d## in a way that keeps the ratio constant. In other words, the relationship you are given appears to have ##r## as an independent variable, but it is not independent. The numerical factor 0.72 implicitly contains the ratio ##\beta##. I strongly recommend that you derive a general expression for the B-field at the midpoint when the separation is ##d## and the radius is ##r##. It will help you see what's going on and see where the factor 0.72 is coming from.

One thing you could do experimentally is to test the given expression is to measure the B-field at the midpoint as a function of coil separation ##d## and find for what value the given relationship is valid. However, I am not sure that this is what the exercise expects you to do.
we need to design an experiment to test the relationship between B and r. so, i think that we need to change r. But is there any way that does not disturb the set-up or should i just change the coil entirely.
i don't think that we need to go into the ratio you have given in this question
 
My point is that the formula is valid only for a given value of the ratio ##\beta=d/r##. If you keep the coil separation the same and change only the radius, you are not testing the relationship that was given to you with ##r## as an independent variable. Stated differently, the correct expression for the B-field at the midpoint is $$B=\frac{f(\beta)\mu_0NI}{r}$$The coils that are given to you are in the Helmholtz configuration (##\beta = 1##) in which case ##f(1)=(4/5)^{3/2}=0.72##. If you change ##r## only, you also change ##\beta## in which case ##f(\beta)## has a different value from ##0.72##.

I will repeat my strong recommendation: if you want to test the expression that is given to you, you need to at least understand where it comes from and how it is put together.
 

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