Can Macroscopically Distinguishable Objects Have the Same Entropy?

  • Context: Graduate 
  • Thread starter Thread starter shimzz5
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Entropy
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of entropy as it applies to macroscopic objects, specifically whether two macroscopically distinguishable objects can have the same entropy despite differing atomic structures or configurations. The scope includes theoretical considerations of entropy definitions and implications for distinguishability in macroscopic states.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses confusion about the relationship between macroscopic distinguishability and entropy, questioning if two different-looking objects can have the same entropy.
  • Another participant asks for clarification on the definition of entropy being used in the discussion.
  • A participant references the Boltzmann entropy, suggesting that two macroscopically different objects, like balls of the same volume, could have the same entropy.
  • Another participant agrees with the idea that entropy is a single variable and argues that macroscopic appearance does not necessarily correlate with entropy, using the example of a red ball and a green ball to illustrate their point.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the relationship between macroscopic distinguishability and entropy. Multiple competing views remain regarding the definitions and implications of entropy in this context.

Contextual Notes

There are unresolved assumptions regarding the definitions of entropy being referenced, as well as the implications of macroscopic versus microscopic states on entropy calculations.

shimzz5
Messages
4
Reaction score
1
I'm kinda confused on the concept of entropy of everyday, low entropy states like macroscopic objects. It is said that the entropy is a measure of disorder, or distinguishability between macroscopic states.

Can two objects which are macroscopically distinguishable/look different have the same entropy, despite the fact that their atomic structure/configuration is different? Or the only states which can possesses the same entropy are completely indistinguishable macroscopically?

Thanks in advance.
 
Science news on Phys.org
What definition of entropy are you using?

A house and a football are distinguishable, but I wouldn't say that's to do with having different entropy, per se.
 
The Boltzmann entropy -the number of microstates.

We can imagine two balls of the same volume but which are macroscopically different - can they have the same entropy?
 
shimzz5 said:
The Boltzmann entropy -the number of microstates.

We can imagine two balls of the same volume but which are macroscopically different - can they have the same entropy?
Yes, obviously. Entropy is a single variable. One dimension. Macroscopic appearance is multi-dimensional.

Consider a red ball on the one hand and a green ball on the other. Either they already have the same entropy or one can be adjusted in size to have the same entropy as the other.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: vanhees71

Similar threads

Graduate Equilibrium, entropy, probability - Release of constraints
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
Undergrad How can the maximum entropy and minimum energy principles be physical?
  • · Replies 13 ·
Replies
13
Views
4K
Graduate Understanding Entropy: A Fresh Perspective from Brian Greene's Latest Book
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
Graduate Trying to understand the entropy of different situations....
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
1K
Undergrad How can a process be isentropic but not reversible or adiobatic?
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
4K
Graduate How does the number of microstates affect the entropy of an isolated system?
  • · Replies 39 ·
2
Replies
39
Views
7K
Undergrad Entropy Real? End of Time? - Veritasium Video
  • · Replies 14 ·
Replies
14
Views
7K
Graduate Could the Laws of Physics Be Proportional to Entropy?
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
1K
Graduate Is entropy a measure of disorder ?
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K
Graduate Which has least entropy- living organism or same mass as chrystal?
  • · Replies 11 ·
Replies
11
Views
2K