Can Spinning a Conductor Between Charged Plates Generate Current?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the question of whether spinning a conductor between charged plates can generate an electric current. Participants explore the theoretical implications, potential mechanisms, and analogies to electromagnetic induction, considering both electrostatic and magnetic influences.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that spinning a conductor or plates between charged plates may generate a current, while others question the validity of this assumption.
  • One participant suggests that if the conductor does not remain on an equipotential, capacitive displacement currents may occur, but these would not flow through the terminals due to the conductor acting as a short circuit.
  • Another participant argues that the changing capacitance as the conductor rotates could lead to an alternating current due to the induced charge distribution on the conductor's surface acting as a dipole antenna.
  • Some participants highlight the differences between this scenario and electromagnetic induction generators, suggesting that the reasoning applied may not be directly applicable.
  • There is mention of the Lorentz force's role in moving electrons and creating an opposing electric field, indicating a complex interaction between electric and magnetic fields.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the feasibility of generating current through this method, with no consensus reached on the effectiveness or validity of the proposed mechanisms.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the term "induced" has different meanings in electrostatics and magnetics, which may lead to confusion in the discussion. The analysis presented is described as a first-order analysis, indicating that further complexities may arise as energy is extracted.

askingask
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TL;DR
This is not a friction machine nor an influence machine.
If I place a conductor between charged plates, spin the conductor or plates and connect the conductor with terminals, would I generate a current?
 
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askingask said:
If I place a conductor between charged plates, spin the conductor or plates and connect the conductor with terminals, would I generate a current?
If the conductor does not remain on an equipotential, then there may be capacitive displacement currents in the wire.

Those currents will not flow through the terminals and any external circuit because the conductor will be a shorter circuit.

Draw a diagram and show the axis of rotation.
 
IMG_2136.png

Blue: capacitor plates
Yellow: conductor
Black arrows: rotation of conductor

If this doesn‘t work, then electromagnetic induction generators shouldn‘t work aswell I thought.
 
I assume the capacitor plates have a fixed charge.

As the conductor rotates, the capacitance between the plates will be changed. With the conductor parallel to the plates, the capacitance will be that of a parallel plate capacitor. With the conductor perpendicular to the plates, the capacitance will be slightly higher because the plate separation will be less near the conductor.
Capacitance is defined by; C = Q / V ; so V = Q / C ; dv = Q / dc .
The plate voltage will therefore change as the conductor rotates, because the plate capacitance changes. The voltage change will be an asymmetric ripple, at twice the rotation frequency, subtracted from the initial plate voltage.

The conductor will be reversed twice by each rotation, so the charge distribution induced on the surface of the conductor must alternate. An alternating current will therefore flow in the conductor, which has become a dipole antenna in an alternating electric field.

To extract energy from the dipole, terminals would NOT be connected to the ends of the dipole conductor, rather the dipole would be cut at its midpoint, where a low impedance two wire transmission line would be connected. The energy extracted by that line, would tend to oppose the mechanical rotation of the dipole.

That is only a first order analysis. Currents and voltages will change in magnitude and phase as energy is extracted.
 
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askingask said:
If this doesn‘t work, then electromagnetic induction generators shouldn‘t work aswell I thought.
The two situations are quite different, so that is not a valid assumption.

Do not get confused by the term "induced". It has different meanings in electrostatics and magnetics.
 
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Baluncore said:
The two situations are quite different, so that is not a valid assumption.

Do not get confused by the term "induced". It has different meanings in electrostatics and magnetics.
What I mean by that, is that the the b field is responsible for the lorentz force which moves the electrons to one side. This should create an e field opposing the lorentz force.
 

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