Can unquantized fields be considered smooth curved abstract manifolds?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on whether unquantized fields, such as solutions to the Dirac and Klein-Gordon equations, can be conceptualized as smooth curved abstract manifolds. It also explores the potential for quantized fields to be viewed in a similar geometric framework.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that classical fields can be viewed as sections of a fiber bundle, with spacetime as the base and vector spaces as fibers associated with symmetry groups.
  • Others discuss the geometric structure of field theories, suggesting that different types of fields correspond to different kinds of fiber bundles, such as scalar fields leading to vector bundles and fermions to spin bundles.
  • A participant questions whether a vibrating string can be considered a curved manifold and extends this inquiry to more complex fields.
  • There is a suggestion that the total space of a fiber bundle can itself be a manifold, and a specific example involving the 2D spacetime Klein-Gordon equation is mentioned.
  • Some participants express uncertainty about the implications of these geometric structures for more complicated fields.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying viewpoints on the relationship between fields and manifold structures, with no clear consensus on whether unquantized or quantized fields can be definitively categorized as smooth curved manifolds.

Contextual Notes

The discussion involves complex mathematical concepts and assumptions about the nature of fields and manifolds, which remain unresolved. Specific examples and definitions are not fully explored, leaving some aspects open to interpretation.

Spinnor
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Can unquantized fields be considered smooth curved abstract manifolds? Say free particle solutions of the Dirac equation or the Klein Gordon equation? Can quantized fields also be considered curved abstract manifolds?

Thanks for any help!
 
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Classical fields can be thought of as sections of a fiber bundle. The bundle structure is that of a base identified with spacetime and fibers which take values in a vector space associated with the particular representation of the Lorentz and internal symmetry groups. This viewpoint is especially powerful when describing gauge theory in mathematical terms. A discussion, appropriate for physics grad students, can be found in Nakahara's Geometry, Topology and Physics. Another perspective, geared toward advanced math grad students, can be
found in Dan Freed's lectures on topological QFT.

Quantization, from a QFT perspective, typically adds structure on top of the classical geometry. I don't have any simple examples to try to illustrate with. A separate are a of study is geometricquantization, which is a mathematical formalism used to describe a quantization procedure starting with a classical geometry.
 
Can a vibrating string be though of as a curved manifold? If yes, why not more complicated fields.

Thank you Fzero for your help!
 
Spinnor said:
Can a vibrating string be though of as a curved manifold?

A string can be modeled by a manifold structure as a curve in whatever space the string lives in.

If yes, why not more complicated fields.

I'm not quite sure what fields you're referring to here. As I said, in general a field theory has a geometric structure associated with it that involves some fiber bundle. The fibers of the bundle are determined from the properties of the fields. Scalar fields lead to vector bundles, fermions lead to spin bundles, gauge fields lead to principal G-bundles, etc. The total space of a fiber bundle is often itself a manifold.
 
fzero said:
A string can be modeled by a manifold structure as a curve in whatever space the string lives in.



I'm not quite sure what fields you're referring to here. As I said, in general a field theory has a geometric structure associated with it that involves some fiber bundle. The fibers of the bundle are determined from the properties of the fields. Scalar fields lead to vector bundles, fermions lead to spin bundles, gauge fields lead to principal G-bundles, etc. The total space of a fiber bundle is often itself a manifold.


Take the 2D spacetime Klein–Gordon equation, the base space is 2D spacetime and the fiber is the complex plane?

Then a plane wave solution looks like a wave on an infinite string (a string that satisfyies E^2 = P^2 + m^2) and a vibrating string can be thought of as a curved manifold?

Thank you for your help!
 

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