Can we mimic a perpetual motion machien?

  • Context: High School 
  • Thread starter Thread starter Ziknich
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Motion Perpetual motion
Click For Summary
SUMMARY

This discussion centers on the concept of mimicking perpetual motion machines, which cannot exist due to the laws of thermodynamics. Participants reference a MIT article that explains how devices like Foucault pendulums can appear to exhibit perpetual motion by utilizing external energy sources, such as motors or solar panels, to counteract energy loss from friction and air resistance. The consensus is that while true perpetual motion is impossible, engineering solutions can create systems that maintain motion for extended periods by continuously replenishing energy.

PREREQUISITES
  • Understanding of the first and second laws of thermodynamics
  • Familiarity with mechanical systems and energy conservation
  • Knowledge of pendulum mechanics and oscillation damping
  • Basic principles of electromagnetism and energy sources
NEXT STEPS
  • Research the principles of the Foucault pendulum and its applications
  • Explore energy storage solutions like springs and weights in mechanical systems
  • Investigate the role of motors in maintaining motion against friction
  • Learn about solar energy applications in mechanical devices
USEFUL FOR

Engineers, physicists, and hobbyists interested in mechanical design, energy systems, and the principles of motion and thermodynamics.

Ziknich
Messages
3
Reaction score
0
Good day to all!

I read a small article in MIT's engineering.edu page. The article talks about perpetual motion machines, it says that we cannot create one, but we can mimic it.
My question is: how can we mimic this perpetual motion machine? Has it been mimicked before? And if yes, how?
I hope you can help me answering these questions.
Thank you!

Oh! The article I read was this:
http://engineering.mit.edu/ask/it-possible-construct-perpetual-motion-machine
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Physics news on Phys.org
All he means is that we can build things that take a long time to stop whatever motion they are supposed to do. A pendulum that will stop swinging in seconds if left to its own devices can run for a week off the energy stored in a spring or a lifted weight.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: russ_watters and Ziknich
Or a Foucault pendulum may appear to some as a perpetual motion device until you understand how it works:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foucault_pendulum

Please note that some of these pendulums may have motors to keep them in motion to counter air resistance:
Air resistance damps the oscillation, so some Foucault pendulums in museums incorporate an electromagnetic or other drive to keep the bob swinging; others are restarted regularly, sometimes with a launching ceremony as an added attraction.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: Ziknich
Has it been mimicked with electromagnetism or some mechanism that uses magnets?
 
I imagine you could hook up the motor to a solar panel and keep it recharged enough to run for a very long time which would be an approximation to perpetual motion.

If the system does some kind of work (moves against a frictional force as an example) then it will lose energy unless its replenished externally and that's why perpetual motion machines can't exist in nature (see link and quote below).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perpetual_motion

There is a scientific consensus that perpetual motion in an isolated system violates either the first law of thermodynamics, the second law of thermodynamics, or both. The first law of thermodynamics is a version of the law of conservation of energy. The second law can be phrased in several different ways, the most intuitive of which is that heat flows spontaneously from hotter to colder places; relevant here is that the law observes that in every macroscopic process, there is friction or something close to it; another statement is that no heat engine (an engine which produces work while moving heat from a high temperature to a low temperature) can be more efficient than a Carnot heat engine.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: Ziknich
Ziknich said:
My question is: how can we mimic this perpetual motion machine? Has it been mimicked before? And if yes, how?
The answer in given in the article:
Only by engineering a solution by which an object in motion can consume some store of energy or gather energy from an external source can we approximate perpetual motion.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: Ziknich
Thank you for all the fast replies!
 
Thanks for all the responses so far, I think we have answered the OP's original question and now we can close this thread before perpetual motion can take over the discussion.

-- Jedi
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: Dale
jedishrfu said:
Thanks for all the responses so far, I think we have answered the OP's original question and now we can close this thread before perpetual motion can take over the discussion.
You forgot to lock it, so I'm just going to repeat the OP word for word and see what happens... :wink:
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: jedishrfu
  • #10
Closed now so as not to perpetuate the perpetual motion notion for another cycle of posts...
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: Hoophy and Ibix

Similar threads

  • · Replies 35 ·
2
Replies
35
Views
6K
  • · Replies 36 ·
2
Replies
36
Views
5K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 11 ·
Replies
11
Views
4K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
3K
  • Sticky
  • · Replies 31 ·
2
Replies
31
Views
15K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
4K
  • · Replies 11 ·
Replies
11
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K