Can you do sum of all moments on a point that's not a rotational axis?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of calculating the sum of moments about a point that is not a rotational axis, particularly in the context of a structure supported by wires. Participants explore the applicability and usefulness of such calculations in static analysis.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions whether it is permissible to sum moments about a point that is not a pivot point.
  • Another participant asserts that moments can be taken about any point in a plane or line in 3D, although some points may be more useful than others.
  • A participant raises a concern about taking moments on a wire, suggesting that wires are primarily designed for tension loads and may not handle moments well.
  • It is suggested that for static analysis, using a specific point (like point A) for moment calculations can simplify the equations, as certain forces may not contribute to the moment sum.
  • Participants agree that moments can be calculated at various points, including unconventional ones, but note that such calculations may not always yield practical results.
  • There is mention of finding centroids in odd-shaped objects, indicating that moments can be calculated in locations that may not correspond to physical supports.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree that moments can be calculated about any point, but there is some debate regarding the practical utility of such calculations, especially concerning wires and unconventional points.

Contextual Notes

Some assumptions about the structure and loads are not fully stated, and the discussion does not resolve the implications of taking moments at various points, particularly in relation to the physical behavior of wires under load.

Femme_physics
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Can you do "sum of all moments" on a point that's not a rotational axis?

For instance, in this structure, with the two wires holding the beam

http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/3687/twowiresj.jpg

Can I do sum of all moments on B? Or is it not allowed because it's not a pivot point?
 
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You can take moments about any point in a plane or any line in 3D.

Some are more useful than others. We usually try to eliminate the effects of one or more external load by taking moments about a point or line that the line of external load passes through.
 


Can I even take a sum of all moments on a wire?
 


It depends on what you are looking for. Wires are good at carrying tension loads, but they tend to kink when subjected to moments or torques.

Although you have not stated a full problem, it appears that you have been asked to do a static analysis of this structure, to determine the tension in the wires given the weight of the rod and the magnitude of the applied load F. In addition to the tension, there will be a reaction at A, the nature of which will depend on whether A is fixed or pinned in some manner.

Hint: When writing your equations of static equilibrium, if you use point A as the reference point for moment calculations, then the reaction force at point A will not contribute to the sum of the moments, because the moment arm from A to A equals 0. You will, however, obtain a moment expression involving T, W, and F, with W and F being known. This makes it easier to substitute for T in the other equation of static equilibrium involving just the summation of forces.
 


Femme_physics said:
Can I even take a sum of all moments on a wire?

As Studiot already said: "You can take moments about any point in a plane or any line in 3D."

So yes, you can take the sum of moments on a wire.
You can even take the sum of moments somewhere in thin air, although that will usually not be very useful. :wink:

You may also note his careful distinction of a plane and of 3D.
In 3D you're actually always taking the sum of moments with respect to a line.
 


You can even take the sum of moments somewhere in thin air, although that will usually not be very useful.

When you are finding the centroid of an odd shaped object such as an L shape or the letter O you will find that the centroid actually is in thin air.
 

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