Can you find the total vertical force acting on this rod?

  • Thread starter Thread starter HappyFlower
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Equilibrium Torque
Click For Summary

Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around analyzing the forces and torques acting on a rod, with participants attempting to identify the directions of these forces and the corresponding torques. The subject area includes concepts from statics and dynamics in physics.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants are discussing the correct labeling of forces and torques, questioning how to determine the direction of torques based on the pivot point. There is also an exploration of resolving forces into vertical and horizontal components.

Discussion Status

The discussion is active, with participants providing guidance on how to approach the problem of identifying forces and torques. There is an emphasis on understanding the relationships between forces and their components, as well as the implications of the rod's state of rest.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the problem may involve both static and dynamic considerations, and there is a mention of needing to resolve forces into components for clarity. The original problem statement is not fully provided, leading to some ambiguity in the discussion.

HappyFlower
Messages
30
Reaction score
1

Homework Statement


I am trying to understand which forces are up or down and left and right. I am trying to also find out the torque that would be clockwise and counterclockwise on the figure.

Homework Equations

The Attempt at a Solution


Capture.PNG

Original Picture
new cap 2.PNG

Edited Picture
Arrows indicate force
CW ClockWise
CCW CountClockWise
am i even close?
 

Attachments

  • Capture.PNG
    Capture.PNG
    3.4 KB · Views: 1,122
  • new cap 2.PNG
    new cap 2.PNG
    4.4 KB · Views: 1,120
Physics news on Phys.org
The directions of the forces are correct in the second drawing. The directions of torques (CW or CCW) are meaningless unless you specify about which point you are calculating them. What is that point?
 
HappyFlower said:

Homework Statement


I am trying to understand which forces are up or down and left and right. I am trying to also find out the torque that would be clockwise and counterclockwise on the figure.

Homework Equations

The Attempt at a Solution


View attachment 222995
Original Picture
View attachment 222996
Edited Picture
Arrows indicate force
CW ClockWise
CCW CountClockWise
am i even close?
It looks like you are making a free body diagram for the object in the middle of the drawing. You do have the forces are pointing in the correct directions.
The torque directions are not all correct, though. How are you deciding which direction to use for a torque?
 
The Center of Mass the little cm dot . forgot to include that.
 
Then not all of them are correctly labeled. Your labeling scheme works if the torques are calculated about the left end of the rod. Can you see why?
 
:O then i would switch them
 
Switch which ones? What does your amended drawing look like?
 
Capture2222.PNG
 

Attachments

  • Capture2222.PNG
    Capture2222.PNG
    4.4 KB · Views: 395
Incorrect. Here is how to figure it out. Pretend that the rod is pivoted at the CM (or whatever origin you have chosen). Concentrate on one force and pretend it's the only force acting. Which way would the rod turn under the influence of this one force only? Label it. Repeat with the remaining forces looking at only one at a time until you have labeled them all.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: HappyFlower
  • #10
Ok i understand my torque now, i am having a problem with the forces. force on A would be up? force by B would be right? force by C would be down? and force by D would be left?. i just want to double check my answer.
 
  • #11
HappyFlower said:
Ok i understand my torque now, i am having a problem with the forces. force on A would be up? force by B would be right? force by C would be down? and force by D would be left?. i just want to double check my answer.
With the exception of C, they are all a combination of a vertical force and a horizontal force. It is not useful to try to categorise each as only one of u/d/l/r. Anyway, D is clearly not left.

Why do you need to say which way each force goes in these terms? You know they are all tensions. That is enough to write down your torque equations.
 
  • #12
haruspex said:
With the exception of C, they are all a combination of a vertical force and a horizontal force. It is not useful to try to categorise each as only one of u/d/l/r. Anyway, D is clearly not left.

Why do you need to say which way each force goes in these terms? You know they are all tensions. That is enough to write down your torque equations.
the question is asking me for total force in each direction.
 
  • #13
HappyFlower said:
the question is asking me for total force in each direction.
If you mean vertically and horizontally, this is not a matter of categorising each force as one or the other. You need to resolve each force into its vertical and horizontal components then add up components in the same orientation.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: HappyFlower
  • #14
HappyFlower said:

Homework Statement


I am trying to understand which forces are up or down and left and right. I am trying to also find out the torque that would be clockwise and counterclockwise on the figure.

Homework Equations

The Attempt at a Solution


View attachment 222995
Original Picture
View attachment 222996
Edited Picture
Arrows indicate force
CW ClockWise
CCW CountClockWise
am i even close?
IF this is a statics problem, you have understood the basic principle. If we are talking dynamics (If the beam is not standing still), then the forces wil vary over time and you need multiple equations with multiple unknowns.

To know if the beam is standing still, you must know that the torque is equal in both directions. (Im assuming a free pivot point at CM, and that this pivot point is anchored to the wall behind it (the beam is not "falling")).

To know that the torque is equal on both sides, you must either decompose the forces into components normal on the beam; or find the distance between the acting force lines and the pivot point. Ask your professor about that last part. And while youre at it, ask him to draw less confusing beam models. This drawing is ridiculous.

Source: I study mechanical engineering at the university level. B average.
 
  • #15
HappyFlower said:
the question is asking me for total force in each direction.
If that's all the question is asking you to find, what is the total force in any direction on an object that is at rest and remains at rest? Would you provide the full statement of the problem as was given to you?
 
  • #16
it just says total force up total force down? etc
 
  • #17
I would assume you are asked to find the total vertical force in the "up" direction and in the "down" direction acting on the rod. Before you consider these two separately, can you determine the sum of the "up" and "down" forces acting on the rod? Then we will figure out what they are separately.

On edit: The semi-circular contraptions on the rod look like protractors. Are the angles, as measured by the protractors, given to you? If so, what are they?
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: HappyFlower

Similar threads

Replies
6
Views
3K
Replies
30
Views
4K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
Replies
6
Views
2K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
3K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
1K
  • · Replies 15 ·
Replies
15
Views
4K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
3K
  • · Replies 14 ·
Replies
14
Views
3K