Capacitance between a wire and a plane

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around the calculation of capacitance between a wire and an infinite plane, focusing on the electric fields generated by both the wire and the plane. Participants explore the implications of charge distributions and the validity of certain assumptions in their calculations.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Assumption checking, Conceptual clarification

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss the application of Gauss's law and the integration of electric fields, questioning the correctness of expressions used and the paths taken in integration. There are attempts to correct the original poster's process by suggesting alternative methods and considerations, such as the method of images.

Discussion Status

Some participants have provided critical feedback on the original approach, pointing out errors and suggesting corrections. There is an ongoing exploration of the implications of the infinite plane's charge distribution and whether it can be treated as grounded. Multiple interpretations of the problem are being considered.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the plane is not grounded, raising questions about the validity of certain methods. The discussion includes considerations of charge density and potential calculations, with some participants expressing uncertainty about the assumptions made in the problem setup.

Kelly Lin
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Homework Statement


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Homework Equations


I want to know whether my process is correct?
THANKS!

The Attempt at a Solution


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1. By using Gauss's law:
[tex]E\cdot 2\pi rz = \frac{\lambda z}{\epsilon_{0}}\Rightarrow E=\frac{\lambda}{2\pi\epsilon_{0} r}[/tex]
In my coordinate system, [tex]E=\frac{\lambda}{2\pi\epsilon_{0}[y^{2}+(z-d)^{2}]^{-1/2}}[/tex]
Then,
[tex]V=-\int\mathbf{E}\cdot d\mathbf{l}=-\int_{0}^{z}\frac{\lambda}{2\pi\epsilon_{0}[y^{2}+(z-d)^{2}]^{-1/2}}dz=\frac{\lambda}{2\pi\epsilon_{0}y}\ln{\frac{\left | \sqrt{d^{2}+y^{2}}-d \right |}{\left | \sqrt{(z-d)^{2}+y^{2}}+(z-d) \right |}}[/tex]
Since [tex]C=\frac{Q}{V}[/tex], then
[tex] C(\text{per length})=2\pi\epsilon_{0}y\ln{\frac{\left | \sqrt{(z-d)^{2}+y^{2}}+(z-d) \right |}{\left | \sqrt{d^{2}+y^{2}}-d \right |}}[/tex]
2.
Use [tex]\sigma=-\epsilon\frac{\partial V}{\partial z}|_{z=0}[/tex] to get the answer.
 
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Kelly Lin said:
whether my process is correct?
No, several errors.
You have written the expression for the field at some arbitrary point, (y, z).
First problem: the expression would be correct without the plate. Perhaps the charge distribution on the plate changes it?
Second problem: you integrate this wrt z,but leaving y as arbitrary. What path is that along?
Note that it would be simpler to run the integral in the other direction, avoiding the d-z.
Third problem: if you fix the second problem, you will get an integral that diverges at the wire end. You need to take into account the radius of the wire.
Fourth problem. You have z as a bound on the integral. What should it be?
 
haruspex said:
No, several errors.
You have written the expression for the field at some arbitrary point, (y, z).
First problem: the expression would be correct without the plate. Perhaps the charge distribution on the plate changes it?
Second problem: you integrate this wrt z,but leaving y as arbitrary. What path is that along?
Note that it would be simpler to run the integral in the other direction, avoiding the d-z.
Third problem: if you fix the second problem, you will get an integral that diverges at the wire end. You need to take into account the radius of the wire.
Fourth problem. You have z as a bound on the integral. What should it be?

Now, I correct my process!
Firstly, the electric field generated by the plane is [tex]E_{plane}=\frac{\sigma}{2\epsilon_{0}}\hat{\mathbf{z}}[/tex].
Then, by the definition of potential, I can get the potential [tex]V_{plane}=-\frac{\sigma}{2\epsilon_{0}}z[/tex]
On the other hand, the electric field generated by the wire is [tex]E_{wire}=\frac{\lambda}{2\pi\epsilon_{0}r}\hat{\mathbf{r}}[/tex]
Then, the potential is [tex]V_{wire}=-\frac{\lambda}{2\pi\epsilon_{0}}\ln{\frac{r}{a}}=-\frac{\lambda}{2\pi\epsilon_{0}}\ln{\frac{\sqrt{(z-d)^{2}+y^{2}}}{a}}[/tex]
Thus, the total potential will be [tex]V_{total}=-\frac{\sigma}{2\epsilon_{0}}z-\frac{\lambda}{2\pi\epsilon_{0}}\ln{\frac{\sqrt{(z-d)^{2}+y^{2}}}{a}}[/tex]

Now, we can use the relation [tex]\sigma=-\epsilon\frac{\partial V}{\partial z}|_{z=0}[/tex] to get the surface charge density.
[tex] <br /> \sigma = \frac{\lambda}{2\pi} \frac{a}{\sqrt{(z-d)^{2}+y^{2}}} \frac{1}{2} \frac{2(z-d)}{\sqrt{(z-d)^{2}+y^{2}}} |_{z=0} + \frac{\sigma}{2}\\<br /> \frac{\sigma}{2} = \frac{\lambda}{2\pi} \frac{-ad}{d^{2}+y^{2}}\\<br /> \sigma = \frac{-\lambda a d}{\pi(d^{2}+y^{2})}<br /> [/tex]
Then, we can go back and get the total potential in the system
[tex] V =-\frac{\lambda}{2\pi\epsilon_{0}}\ln{\frac{\sqrt{(z-d)^{2}+y^{2}}}{a}} + \frac{\lambda adz}{2\pi\epsilon_{0}(d^{2}+y^{2})}[/tex]
and the capacitance per length of the wire is
[tex] C = \frac{\lambda}{V} = \frac{2\pi\epsilon_{0}(d^{2}+y^{2})}{adz} - 2\pi\epsilon_{0}\ln{\frac{a}{\sqrt{(z-d)^{2}+y^{2}}}}<br /> [\tex][/tex]
 
Kelly Lin said:
the electric field generated by the plane is
That expression is for a uniformly charged plane. It won't be.
Consider the method of images.
 
haruspex said:
That expression is for a uniformly charged plane. It won't be.
Consider the method of images.
At first glance of the question, I came up with this method.
However, the plane isn't grounded so I am unsure if this method is valid for this problem?
 
Kelly Lin said:
At first glance of the question, I came up with this method.
However, the plane isn't grounded so I am unsure if this method is valid for this problem?
It is an infinite plane. That is effectively grounded.
 
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Oh~ I see~
Thanks a lot!
haruspex said:
It is an infinite plane. That is effectively grounded.
 

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