Carbonated Water Freezing and boiling points

[Grayman]

Is there a way to calculate the freezing and boiling point of water that has different levels of CO2 in it?

 

[Bystander]

Is there a way to calculate the freezing and boiling point of water that has different levels of CO2 in it?

Yes. Did you have a more specific question in mind?

 

[jim mcnamara]

The general answer is for you to understand colligative properties of solutions.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colligative_properties

The idea is that you have colligative properties based on the number of moles of solute. Which solute (CO₂) does not make a difference, it just has to be soluble. BTW: CO₂ when dissolved in water forms carbonic acid - H₂CO₃

So as @Bystander correctly points out - what are you trying to do?

 

[CWatters]

Not my field but..

Google found this which might be relevant.
http://webserver.dmt.upm.es/~isidoro/bk3/c07sol/Solution properties.pdf
See the paragraph on page 29 that begins "A typical carbonated soft-drink bottle..."

google "depression constant" and "how to calculate the freezing point of a solution"

 

[Grayman]

So as @Bystander correctly points out - what are you trying to do?

I didn't provide the why because I was avoiding controversial topics but here you go ->

1) Determine if the rise and acidification of the oceans in the last 50 years due to CO2 rising can cause the salt waters freezing point to change from then to now.
a) If so how much?
2) Determine if the rise in CO2 can cause fresh waters freezing point to change due to it absorbing CO2 in the air and from the oceans.
b) If so how much?

Why? I had a thought: Thermometers are zeroed and calibrated to the freezing points of Fresh Water (Celsius), as Celsius is defined the point of freezing of fresh water, and Fahrenheit for saltwater.

If the not entirely pure water mixtures used to calibrate all thermometers absorbs a different amount of CO2 from the atmosphere from 50 years ago until now due the doubling of CO2 in the air then could the thermometers 0 reference change over the years due to the changing standard of freezing water being that thermometers are calibrated to the freezing point of water?

 

[Bystander]

hen could the thermometers 0 reference change over the years due to the changing standard of freezing water being that thermometers are calibrated to the freezing point of water?

Rest easy. People have been using "Vienna water" for serious calibrations for maannnyyyy years.

 

[Grayman]

Rest easy. People have been using "Vienna water" for serious calibrations for maannnyyyy years.

It didn't show up on a search engine.

If you are simply implying that the water is very very pure it will not make me feel better. Water absorbs O2 and CO2 gasses from the atmosphere and stirring or pouring it causes it to absorb faster. Unless you calibrated the thermometer in a controlled atmosphere where the CO2 levels were the same from 50 years ago until now the CO2 in the water would be different. Would this difference effect Vienna water?

 

[Bystander]

It didn't show up on a search engine.

https://www.google.com/search?noj=1......1.1.64.serp..0.7.463...30i10k1.O2FEoRY4aJY
Freezing and "boiling points" are sensitive to isotope, ^16,17,18O and H, D, distributions, far more so than to dissolved gases which are boiled out of solution prior to any use for calibrations.

 

[jim mcnamara]

Your notion of ocean chemistry could stand a tuneup. It's great that you're interested!

Hmm. I do not feel in the mood to write a textbook. So:
The solubility of CO₂ in water changes dramatically with surface water temperature. This fact is one of the reasons for seasonal changes in CO₂.
http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/ja01861a033

Large bodies of water like oceans stratify: colder water on the bottom, transition thermocline in the middle, and a warmer epipelagic mixed layer on top.
The thermocline moves up and down in the water column seasonally in temperate latitudes, stays low in the tropics, and is non-existant in polar regions.
http://oceanservice.noaa.gov/facts/thermocline.html

Meromictic basins (fresh or salt water) never have mixing of upper layer with the bottom most layer. Accumulations of odd compounds like methane clathrates and HS are pronounced in meromictic ocean basins. Maybe think of them as fossil water mostly locked off from the atmosphere - the extreme being amictic Antarctic lakes.

If this over-brief note winds your clock, consider looking up the terms I used. Or even better, maybe take a peek at an online course in oceanography. take a class!

One our active posters, @CapnGranite, has cataloged methane clathrates, for example. He may have something to say.

 

[256bits]

It didn't show up on a search engine.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vienna_Standard_Mean_Ocean_Water

 

[CapnGranite]

http://thesis.library.caltech.edu/302/1/Blackwell_vr_1998.pdf
Formation processes of clathrate hydrates of carbon dioxide and methane

There are some nice phase diagrams of CO2 in sea water and carbonate species that can occur, showing temperature, pH and pressure relationships.

 

[Grayman]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vienna_Standard_Mean_Ocean_Water

Perfect thanks.

Are there any experiments that anyone knows of that prove different atmospheric conditions have no effect on the calibration standard using the accepted techniques and standards that would theoretically produce the most accurate results.