Freezing and Boiling water at the same time

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the phenomenon of freezing and boiling water simultaneously, particularly in the context of how decreasing atmospheric pressure affects vapor pressure and boiling points. Participants explore the theoretical implications of these processes and their interrelation.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that decreasing pressure increases vapor pressure, leading to boiling and subsequent cooling of the remaining water, potentially allowing it to freeze.
  • Another participant challenges the idea that decreasing pressure increases vapor pressure, stating that vapor pressure is dependent solely on temperature and that lowering atmospheric pressure allows vapor pressure to "win."
  • A third participant clarifies that at a given temperature, vapor pressure is fixed, and that lower atmospheric pressure lowers the boiling point of water, enabling boiling to occur more readily.
  • There is a reiteration of the idea that reduced atmospheric pressure allows vapor pressure to cause boiling faster.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the relationship between atmospheric pressure and vapor pressure, with some asserting that vapor pressure is independent of atmospheric pressure while others suggest a connection. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the exact nature of these relationships.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference the concept of boiling points and vapor pressure without fully resolving the underlying assumptions or definitions related to these terms. There is an implicit complexity in how these concepts interact under varying pressure conditions.

AbsoluteZer0
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Hi,

As I understand, by placing water in a vacuum and decreasing pressure, vapor pressure will subsequently be increased causing the water to boil. The water will then evaporate, which will cool the water that is left behind. Further evaporation over a period of time will drop the water temperature to a level suitable for freezing, and the water will then freeze at the top.

It seems pretty clear-cut, but I am struggling to understand how decreasing atmospheric pressure increases vapor pressure. What is the cause of this?

Thanks,
 
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I would not say "decreasing pressure increases pressure". If anything, low pressure means there is a "place" for water vapor, so water will happily boil. This boiling will increase the pressure at the expense of the water internal energy - that's why the water temperature drops down. But: this increased pressure is lower than the initial pressure.
 
Hi AbsoluteZer0! :smile:
AbsoluteZer0 said:
… I am struggling to understand how decreasing atmospheric pressure increases vapor pressure.

No it doesn't, the vapour pressure depends only on the temperature of the water …

at a particular temperature, the vapour pressure is fixed.

Lowering the atmospheric pressure simply enables the vapour pressure to "win", see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boiling
While below the boiling point a liquid evaporates from its surface, at the boiling point vapor bubbles come from the bulk of the liquid. For this to be possible, the vapor pressure must be sufficiently high to win the atmospheric pressure, so that the bubbles can be "inflated".​
 
So essentially, when their is less atmospheric pressure it lowers the boiling point of water, so vapor pressure is able to cause boiling faster?
 
Last edited:
AbsoluteZer0 said:
So essentially, when their is less atmospheric pressure it lowers the boiling point of water, so vapor pressure is able to cause boiling faster?

Yes. :smile:
 

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