Causal signal is defined in electrical eng.

  • Context: Undergrad 
  • Thread starter Thread starter krindik
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Electrical Signal
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of causal and non-causal signals in electrical engineering, particularly focusing on their definitions, implications, and physical interpretations. Participants explore the meaning of signals defined for negative time and the relevance of such definitions in practical contexts.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the meaning of a signal having values for negative time, suggesting that all signals could be considered causal.
  • Another participant provides links to definitions of causal signals and asks for the physical interpretation of non-causal signals.
  • A participant suggests that the point t = 0 represents 'now', indicating that present states depend on past states, referencing Kramers-Kronig relations.
  • One participant attempts to clarify the distinction between non-causal and anti-causal signals, proposing that non-causal signals cannot influence present effects.
  • Another participant raises a potential error in the interpretation of Kramers-Kronig relations, suggesting that response functions depend only on past or present stimuli.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the definitions and implications of non-causal and anti-causal signals, indicating that the discussion remains unresolved with multiple competing interpretations.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations in the definitions and interpretations provided, particularly regarding the assumptions about time and the physical implications of signals defined for negative time.

krindik
Messages
63
Reaction score
1
Hi,

As I read, A Causal signal is defined in electrical eng. context as

[itex]f(t) = \{^{f(t), t\geq{0}}_{0, t<0}[/itex]

However what does it mean to have f(t) when t<0 ? ie. non-causal signal?
Is there any meaning when t<0 for any signal? In that sense all signals are causal. Isn't it?

Could u pls expain and point me correct direction.

Thanks
 
Physics news on Phys.org


In fact, I'm referring to Causal Signals

Pls see below for there definitions,
http://cnx.org/content/m11495/latest/

However, my question is regarding the actual physical interpretation of these signals.

what is the meaning of an anti-causal or non-causal signal which has values for negative time?

what's the meaning of negative time? is it with respect to the point in time which we start to observe the system?

can u give some examples of such signals?
 


Maybe it would help to keep in mind that the point t = 0 corresponds to 'now'. In terms of constitutive relations (e.g. Kramers-Kronig), it means that the present state of the material can only depend on *past* states of the material and incident fields, not future values.

The same type of formulation was used by Wheeler and Feynman (wheeler-feynman abosrber theory)

http://www.npl.washington.edu/npl/int_rep/dtime/node2.html
 
Last edited by a moderator:


So when we refer to non-causal it means that the signal has existed before now until future and an anti-causal signal means it has existed in the past.

So when we interpret Kramers-kronig relatioship we say that [itex]\chi^{'} \, ,\chi^{''}[/itex] depend on each others present and future values but not on any of past values?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kramers-Kronig_relations"
 
Last edited by a moderator:


I'm not familiar with the way you are using non-causal as opposed to anti-causal. My understanding is that causal signals can influence present effects, non-causal signals cannot.

As for the Kramers-Kronig relation, I think you have a sign error: the response functions only depend on past (or present) stimuli.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 29 ·
Replies
29
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
1K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
1K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
3K
  • · Replies 16 ·
Replies
16
Views
3K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 17 ·
Replies
17
Views
4K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K