CERN: Accelerating Particles to 99.99% Speed of Light

In summary, the Large Hadron Collider will collide proton to proton (and sometimes proton to anti-proton) at 99.9999991% the speed of light, producing bursts of rare forces and particles that haven't been seen since the big bang.
  • #1
Please correct me where I'm wrong,
Our solar system is moving around our galaxy at 250km/s and CERN can accelerate a particle to 99.99% the speed of light. If you are observing a particle going 99.99% of c from outside our galaxy and it happens to be moving the same direction of our solar system, the total speed would be greater than c... Am I looking at this the wrong way?
 
Physics news on Phys.org
  • #2
You have to use the Relativistic formula for the addtion of velocities:

[tex]w = \frac{u+v}{1+\frac{uv}{c^2}}[/tex]

This will always give an answer of less than c.

BTW, this is the correct formula to use when adding any velocites, But when u and v are small compared to c, the answer comes out to be so close to the answer you get when you just use [itex]w=u+v[/itex], you can use the simpler formula as long as your answer doesn't have to be too exact.
 
  • #3
Hi Rikendogenz and welcome to PF,

In special relativity speed is not an additive quantity. For example in Euclidean relativity (every day relativity), if your running left at 5 m/s and I am running right at 5 m/s, then my speed relative to you is 5 + 5 = 10 m/s. However, in special relativity this isn't the case one must use Lorentz transformations to determine the relatvie velocity of two moving bodies.

Edit: I see Janus has snook in before me :rolleyes:
 
  • #4
Head on photon 'collissions' have net 2C as observed from Stationary

From a stationary reference frame (Earth is close to a stationary frame... read special relativity, Einstein talks of the either and preferred reference frames as Isaac Newton did before him, other reference frames are primarily for time dilation...)

the following was a response I made to a similar question...

nbiggershaft said:
You can spot out various fallacies in his arguments though. For example, the statement "particles colliding at double light speed" clearly ignores relativity.
The Large Hadron Collider will collide proton to proton (and sometimes proton to anti-proton) in head on collisions with each set of particles traveling at 99.9999991% of the speed of light. The net collision speed is additive (same calculation as head-on car collisions). The kinetic energy per particle is determined by how close to the speed of light each particle travels. (That is why cosmic rays can have more energy even when the collision is moving to stationary rather than head on at same speed. The difference is how the energy is focused. Head-on collisions of same mass, same speed, exact opposite vector and center mass impact will focus the energy to a single point).

The particles will be guided around the tunnel by more than 1,600 superpowerful, cylinder-shaped ELECTROMAGNETS, some of which weigh more than 30 tons. The protons will zoom around the ring up to 11,245 times per second, reaching 99.9999991% of the speed of light.

At four points in the ring, magnets will push the beams together, causing up to 600 million PROTON COLLISIONS per second. If all goes as planned, these high-speed, high-energy crashes will create bursts of rare forces and particles that haven’t been seen since the big bang 13.7 billion years ago.

Four huge PARTICLE DETECTORS — the biggest, ATLAS, is 150 feet long, 82 feet high, and has more than 100 million sensors — will track and measure the particles at each collision. Filters will discard all but the 100 most interesting crashes per second. This will still produce enough data to fill a 12-mile-high stack of CDs per year.

JTankers
 
Last edited by a moderator:
  • #5
JTankers said:
"Head on photon 'collissions' have net 2C as observed from Stationary" ...

The Large Hadron Collider will collide proton to proton (and sometimes proton to anti-proton) in head on collisions with each set of particles traveling at 99.9999991% of the speed of light. The net collision speed is additive (same calculation as head-on car collisions). The kinetic energy per particle is determined by how close to the speed of light each particle travels. ...
So where is the "net 2c" speed of anything?
Are you really going to add 99% + 99% for a speed faster than 100% of light "c"!
Did you even read post #4 by Janus on how to add speeds.

OR are your posts more about driving traffic to the sites listed in your posts?
You are new here; you need to actually read what is expected of you in the must read first sticky posts.
 
  • #6
Strictly speaking, SR applies only in the absence of a gravitational field. In GR “c” is not the ultimate speed of either light or material objects, when a gravitational field is present.

In GR, the ultimate speed is determined only by the metric tensor. Following Max Born, if for simplicity we imagine a 2-D subset (x,t) of the 4-D spacetime continuum, and assume the off-diagonal elements of the metric tensor vanish, then the light lines are given by:

ds^2 = g11*dx^2 + g44*dt^2 = 0 --> ultimate speed = dx/dt = SQRT(-g44/g11).

In the flat Minkowski spacetime of SR, g11 = 1 & g44 = -c^2, so we have:

ultimate speed = SQRT[-(-c^2)/1] = c, as expected.

But in the curved Riemannian spacetime that exists when a gravitational field is present (or if you are using a non-inertial frame of reference?), the values of g11 & g44 could in principle be any real numbers, thus placing no theoretical upper limit on the ultimate speed in GR.
 
  • #7
Prof Niemand said:
Strictly speaking, SR applies only in the absence of a gravitational field. In GR “c” is not the ultimate speed of either light or material objects, when a gravitational field is present.

In GR, the ultimate speed is determined only by the metric tensor. Following Max Born, if for simplicity we imagine a 2-D subset (x,t) of the 4-D spacetime continuum, and assume the off-diagonal elements of the metric tensor vanish, then the light lines are given by:

ds^2 = g11*dx^2 + g44*dt^2 = 0 --> ultimate speed = dx/dt = SQRT(-g44/g11).

In the flat Minkowski spacetime of SR, g11 = 1 & g44 = -c^2, so we have:

ultimate speed = SQRT[-(-c^2)/1] = c, as expected.

But in the curved Riemannian spacetime that exists when a gravitational field is present (or if you are using a non-inertial frame of reference?), the values of g11 & g44 could in principle be any real numbers, thus placing no theoretical upper limit on the ultimate speed in GR.

But that's strictly coordinate speed, not what anyone would measure. If you take the tangent vector of a null path expressed in the orthonormal basis at a point on timelike world line, you always get c exactly. This is the mathematical expression of 'local vacuum speed of light is always c'. It is also required by the fact that semi-Riemannian geometry has flat Minkowski space as a tangent space at every point.
 

1. What is CERN and what do they do?

CERN (European Organization for Nuclear Research) is a research organization that operates the largest particle physics laboratory in the world. Their main purpose is to study the fundamental properties of particles and their interactions, as well as to explore the origins of the universe.

2. How does CERN accelerate particles to 99.99% of the speed of light?

CERN uses a large circular particle accelerator called the Large Hadron Collider (LHC) to accelerate particles. The LHC uses powerful magnets to accelerate particles to high speeds and then collides them together, allowing scientists to observe the particles' interactions and study their properties.

3. Why is it important to reach 99.99% of the speed of light?

Reaching high speeds allows scientists to study particles at energies that cannot be achieved with other methods. This can provide insights into the fundamental laws of physics and help us understand the origins of the universe.

4. What are the potential applications of this research?

The research conducted at CERN can have various applications, such as developing new technologies, improving medical treatments, and advancing our understanding of the universe. For example, the discovery of the Higgs boson particle at CERN has led to advancements in medical imaging technology.

5. Is it safe to conduct experiments at such high speeds?

Yes, extensive safety measures are taken at CERN to ensure the safety of both the researchers and the public. The LHC is designed and operated with strict safety regulations in place, and any potential risks are thoroughly assessed and mitigated before experiments are conducted.

Suggested for: CERN: Accelerating Particles to 99.99% Speed of Light

Replies
45
Views
3K
Replies
10
Views
767
Replies
17
Views
368
Replies
34
Views
880
Replies
78
Views
4K
Replies
13
Views
1K
Replies
6
Views
1K
Replies
18
Views
1K
Back
Top