Challenging question about electromagnetic induction

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around a problem related to electromagnetic induction, specifically focusing on the induced electromotive force (emf) in a given configuration involving magnetic flux and electric fields. Participants are exploring the implications of the equations governing electromagnetic induction and the geometry of the problem.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants are attempting to relate the total emf to the rate of change of magnetic flux and are questioning the assumptions regarding the geometry of the diagram. There are discussions about the symmetry of the electric field lines and how this might influence the calculations of the induced emf.

Discussion Status

Some participants have provided hints and suggestions for approaching the problem, particularly regarding the symmetry of the electric field and the implications of the geometry. However, there is no explicit consensus on the next steps or a clear resolution to the problem.

Contextual Notes

There are concerns about the accuracy of the diagram provided in the problem statement, with participants noting potential discrepancies in the dimensions and the shape of the triangle involved. Assumptions about the geometry are being discussed, particularly regarding the right isosceles nature of the triangle and the equality of certain lengths.

Naman Singh
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Homework Statement


WhatsApp Image 2019-02-16 at 8.36.14 AM.jpeg

I have been stuck on this for weeks

Homework Equations


∫E.dl = -dφ/dt

The Attempt at a Solution


Total EMF (V) = -dφ/dt (Where φ is the magnetic flux through the loop)
⇒V = -A(dB/dt) (Since Area remains constant)
⇒V = -Ax (x=dB/dt)
⇒V = -2xl^2
I do not know how to proceed.
 

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I'm no expert on this, and I can't find an online reference to support this idea, but maybe you can assume that as the field strength changes lines of flux move radially. That would show where no emf is produced. You can then cut the triangle in a certain way to figure out the remaining two emfs.
 
I guess that the phrase "emf induced in the side PQ" means the magnitude of the integral ∫E.dl, where the integral is taken along the side PQ and E is the induced electric field.

By symmetry, what can you say about the shape of the induced electric field lines?
Can you use ##\oint##E.dl = -dφ/dt to determine the magnitude of E at any point within the magnetic field region?
 
Last edited:
I agree with @TSny's assessment. I would also recommend that you write the electric field vector in Cartesian coordinates after you find it and before you do the line integrals.
 
In the diagram, PQ >> PR yet it says they are the same length. Lousy drawing or typo?
Hint: don't evaluate the emf along QR explicitly! Use what post 3 says.
 
Last edited:
rude man said:
In the diagram, PQ >> PR yet it says they are the same length. Lousy drawing or typo?
Not very good drawing. The triangle is supposed to be right isosceles.
 
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kuruman said:
Not very good drawing. The triangle is supposed to be right isosceles.
That is my assumption also (but it's just an assumption). So we assume the given dimensions are gospel, not the drawing.
 
rude man said:
That is my assumption also (but it's just an assumption). So we assume the given dimensions are gospel, not the drawing.
Yes. It appears that the drawing is not to scale. The problem clearly states that ##PQ=PR=2l##. The only assumption is that angle QPR = 90o. Without it there is no choice that matches the answer.
 
TSny said:
I guess that the phrase "emf induced in the side PQ" means the magnitude of the integral ∫E.dl, where the integral is taken along the side PQ and E is the induced electric field.

By symmetry, what can you say about the shape of the induced electric field lines?
Can you use ##\oint##E.dl = -dφ/dt to determine the magnitude of E at any point within the magnetic field region?

Thanks for the hints but I'm really not making headway with this. Can you please explain how symmetry plays a part here?
 
  • #10
Naman Singh said:
Thanks for the hints but I'm really not making headway with this. Can you please explain how symmetry plays a part here?
Symmetry says that the electric field lines in the region of interest are concentric circles. What does this suggest about ##\int \vec E \cdot d\vec l## along segment PQ? What about along segment RS or any radial line segment?
 
Last edited:

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