Change in Entropy for Isothermal Expansion

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around deriving the change in entropy for a Van der Waals gas during isothermal expansion. Participants are examining the relationship between temperature, pressure, and volume in the context of thermodynamics.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification, Assumption checking, Mathematical reasoning

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Some participants attempt to derive the change in entropy using the equation TdS = ∫(dP/dV)dV + ∫(Cv/T)dT, while others question the validity of this equation, noting dimensional inconsistencies. There are suggestions to apply the first law of thermodynamics to reformulate the problem.

Discussion Status

The discussion is ongoing, with participants exploring different interpretations of the equations involved. Some guidance has been offered regarding the application of the first law of thermodynamics, but there is no explicit consensus on the correct approach or derivation.

Contextual Notes

Participants express uncertainty about the origins of certain equations and their applicability, indicating a potential gap in foundational understanding. There is also mention of the constraints imposed by the problem statement.

ragingbuddha
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Homework Statement



Derive change in entropy for Van der Waal gas in isothermal expansion

TdS = ∫(dP/dV)dV + ∫(Cv/T)dT

Homework Equations

P = NRT/(V-bN) + a(N/V)^2

The Attempt at a Solution



TdS = ∫dP + 0 = Pf - Pi

TΔS = ∫dP = ∫(Pf - Pi)

TΔS = [ ∫ (NRT / Vf-bN) - a(N/Vf)^2] - [ ∫ (NRT / Vi-bN) - a (N/Vi)^2]

= [ NRT ln (Vf-bN) + aN^2/Vf ] - [ NRT ln (Vi-bN) + aN^2/Vi ]

= NRT ln (Vf-bN / Vi-bN) + a(N^2/Vf) - a (N^2/Vi)
 
Last edited:
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ragingbuddha said:

Homework Statement



Derive change in entropy for Van der Waal gas in isothermal expansion

TdS = ∫(dP/dV)dV + ∫(Cv/T)dT
Where did you get this? The left side has dimensions of heat flow and the first integral on the right side has dimensions of pressure. Perhaps you meant (using the first law dQ = dU + PdV) :

\Delta S = \int dS = \int dQ/T = \int (nC_vdT + PdV)/T = n\int C_v\frac{dT}{T} + \int \frac{P}{T}dV

Use your expression for P for a Van der Waal gas and see if you can work it out from there.

AM
 
Andrew Mason said:
Where did you get this? The left side has dimensions of heat flow and the first integral on the right side has dimensions of pressure. Perhaps you meant (using the first law dQ = dU + PdV) :

This equation is given by the problem. Frankly, I don't know where that equation comes from either because I cannot derive it from anything I have learned so far.
 
ragingbuddha said:
This equation is given by the problem. Frankly, I don't know where that equation comes from either because I cannot derive it from anything I have learned so far.
It is wrong. Use the expression I have given you. You can multiply both sides by T since T is constant in the reversible, isothermal process.

AM
 

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