Check invariance under rotation group in spacetime

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around the invariance and covariance of equations under the rotation group in spacetime, specifically within the context of Lorentz transformations. Participants are examining the transformation properties of various quantities in the framework of special relativity.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification, Assumption checking, Mathematical reasoning

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants explore the transformation of different quantities, questioning the distinction between invariance and covariance. There is an attempt to clarify the requirements for demonstrating covariance under Lorentz transformations, with references to specific transformation properties.

Discussion Status

The discussion is ongoing, with participants providing insights into the transformation properties of momentum and other quantities. Some guidance has been offered regarding the need to understand how specific variables transform, but no consensus has been reached on the approach to take.

Contextual Notes

There is a mention of language barriers affecting the clarity of the original poster's question, which may influence the discussion's direction. Additionally, the participants acknowledge that not all transformation properties need to be utilized in the analysis.

mcas
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Homework Statement
Check invariance under rotation group in spacetime of a relativistic Newton equation of a charged particle in e-m field with Lorentz force.
Relevant Equations
##\frac{dp^\mu}{ds}=\frac{e}{c}F^{\mu \nu} u_\nu##
I started by inserting ##ds=\sqrt{dx'^{\mu} dx'_{\mu}}## and ##p'^{\mu}=mc \frac{dx'^{\mu}}{ds}##.
So we have:
$$\frac{dp'^{\mu}}{ds}=mc \frac{d}{dx'^{\mu}} \frac{d}{dx'_{\mu}} (x'^{\mu})$$
Now I know that
##dx'^{\mu}=C_\beta \ ^\mu dx^\beta##
and
##dx'_{\mu}=C^\gamma \ _\mu dx_\gamma##
where ##C## is the transformation and ##C_\beta \ ^\mu C^\gamma \ _\mu = \delta^\gamma _\beta##.
Taking this, we have
$$\frac{dp'^{\mu}}{ds}=mc \frac{d}{C_\beta \ ^\mu dx^\beta C^\gamma \ _\mu dx_\gamma} (x'^{\mu})=mc \frac{d}{dx^\beta dx_\beta} (x'^{\mu})=mc \frac{d}{ds} (x'^{\mu})$$

And now if I were to write ##x'^{\mu}=C_\delta \ ^\mu dx^\delta##, this equation wouldn't be an invariant but I think it should be.
 
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I'm a bit puzzled, what is really asked? You have an equation which is manifestly covariant under Lorentz transformations. Since the rotations form a subgroup of the Lorentz group, it's also covariant under rotations.

NB: I guess "invariance" here should read "covariance" or "invariance" is in fact "form invariance" which is synonymous with "covariance" ;-))
 
vanhees71 said:
I'm a bit puzzled, what is really asked? You have an equation which is manifestly covariant under Lorentz transformations. Since the rotations form a subgroup of the Lorentz group, it's also covariant under rotations.

NB: I guess "invariance" here should read "covariance" or "invariance" is in fact "form invariance" which is synonymous with "covariance" ;-))

I'm sorry, English is not my first language so the translation might be a little bit clanky and I assume you must be right.
So let me try rephrasing it - I have to show that this equation is covariant under Lorentz transformations using the following properties:
## A_\alpha=C_\alpha \ ^\beta A'_\beta##
##A^\alpha=C^\alpha \ _\beta A'^\beta##
##A'_\alpha=C^\beta \ _\alpha A_\beta##
##A'^\alpha=C_\beta \ ^\alpha A^\beta##
##C^\gamma \ _\alpha C_\gamma \ ^\beta=\delta_\alpha ^\beta##
##C_\alpha \ ^\gamma C^\beta \ _\gamma=\delta_\alpha ^\beta##
##\frac{\partial}{\partial x_\alpha}=C^\alpha \ _\beta \frac{\partial}{\partial x'_\beta}##
##\frac{\partial}{\partial x'_\alpha}=C _\beta \ ^\alpha \frac{\partial}{\partial x_\beta}##
(I don't have to use all of them, obviously.)

I've tried to go from ##\frac{dp'^{\mu}}{ds}## to ##\frac{dp^{\mu}}{ds}## but that didn't work as seen in my attempt above.
 
Well, for the left-hand side you first need to deduce, how ##p^{\mu}## and ##s## transform under Lorentz transformations, and on the right-hand side ##q## and ##F^{\mu \nu}## as well as ##u_{\nu}##. So just think about the definition of the various quantities and their transformation properties under Lorentz transformations.
 

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