Chemical Reactions of Substances & Professors' Advice

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the chemical reactions involved in producing petrol from air and electricity, specifically focusing on the extraction of CO2, the conversion of CO2 to methanol, and the subsequent transformation of methanol into petrol. Participants explore various chemical processes, potential homemade methods, and the feasibility of these reactions for a research thesis in petroleum engineering.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Homework-related

Main Points Raised

  • One participant outlines a proposed process involving the combination of air and NaOH to separate CO2 through electrolysis, followed by the reaction of CO2 with H2 to produce methanol.
  • Another participant questions the feasibility of using electrolysis for decomposing carbonates and suggests that the CNN video referenced may oversimplify the process.
  • Concerns are raised about the reliability of media reports as sources for scientific research, with some participants emphasizing the need for more rigorous scientific backing.
  • Participants discuss the catalytic hydrogenation process for converting CO2 and H2 into methanol, inquiring about the necessary catalysts and processes involved.
  • There is a suggestion to consider the energetics of generating methanol from aerial CO2 and water, with a participant indicating that understanding energy input is crucial for the reactions discussed.
  • Some participants express skepticism about the practicality of homemade methods for complex chemical processes like the MTG (Methanol-to-Gasoline) conversion.
  • One participant mentions a classic chemistry experiment for capturing CO2 using calcium hydroxide, seeking clarification on its execution.
  • There is a request for alternative research topics related to petroleum that could be more feasible for a thesis defense.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants exhibit a mix of agreement and disagreement regarding the methods and processes discussed. While some express interest in the proposed reactions, others challenge the feasibility and reliability of the sources cited, indicating that multiple competing views remain unresolved.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight limitations in the clarity of certain chemical processes, the need for specific catalysts, and the complexity of reactions involved in converting methanol to petrol. There are also unresolved questions about the practicality of homemade setups for these chemical reactions.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be useful for students and researchers in petroleum engineering, chemistry, and environmental science, particularly those interested in alternative fuel production and the chemistry of carbon capture and conversion processes.

serendipity21
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[1]

Good afternoon anyone! I am a Petroleum Engineering student at Palawan State University and conducting a research. I have seen a topic of research, and it is: The Production of Petrol from Air and Electricity, and I need to find some reaction equations for my topic, here are some:

Air and NaOH is combined and passed through an electrolyser to separate the CO2 present in air.

CO2 and H2 are reacted together to produce methanol.

Methanol is converted into petrol.

(Please include the other products and catalysts in your equations, thanks in advance!)

[2]

In the 2nd reaction mentioned above, a reactor is needed to produce methanol. Since I am an amateur student, please explain its operation and am I able to make a homemade reactor?
I would be glad if yes.



[Preferably I need to speak to Chemistry professors and Chemical Engineers out there, I have a pile of questions to ask to you. Thank you very much! (Thesis Adviser)]
 
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serendipity21 said:
Air and NaOH is combined and passed through an electrolyser to separate the CO2 present in air.

I don't see how you are going to use electrolysis to decompose carbonates.
 


Sorry, but basing your chemical research on some CNN video is not going to work. While most of the information there is reasonably correct, there are plenty of shortcuts and simplifications.
 
Borek said:
Sorry, but basing your chemical research on some CNN video is not going to work. While most of the information there is reasonably correct, there are plenty of shortcuts and simplifications.

Of course sir! I have many sources and do not base on just one news article. Thanks I found someone I could speak on. Here is the company's website for that news in CNN.

http://www.airfuelsynthesis.com/home.html
 


Find where they state "we use electrolysis to reclaim CO2 from the water solution".
 


Exactly where do you have read about that sir? I have read some topics related to carbon recycling, and if I was not to base the idea from NaOH, how can I extract CO2 from air?
 


serendipity21 said:
Exactly where do you have read about that sir?

I haven't. That was more of a rhetorical question. I would be convinced they use electrolysis for CO2 if you will find it on their page.
 
  • #10
  • #11


Interesting, looks like a piece of a clever chemistry. Still, if I understand the process correctly (and I am not sure I do) I see it as an electrolytical acidification of the solution, not carbonate electrolysis. Perhaps that's just a nomenclature thing.

CNN report was clear, but I don't trust media reports, way too many times what they show is garbled beyond recognition.
 
  • #12


Thanks for your time and effort Sirs! I have read the article JOC perspective. Now concerning on the catalytic hydrogenation, CO2 + 3H2 <----> CH3OH + H2O, what kind of process is required to apply this equation, and is there a catalyst? If there is, particularly what? We're thinking of applying the method up to the production of methanol. But from methanol, it needs the MTG process, which is really complicated. Are there possible homemade methods for us students?

Thanks in advance, cheers.
 
  • #13


By the way, on the news, the extraction of CO2 via electrolysis of air and NaOH? How can we do that? Is it possible with the use of homemade materials?
 
  • #14


serendipity21 said:
Thanks for your time and effort Sirs! I have read the article JOC perspective. Now concerning on the catalytic hydrogenation, CO2 + 3H2 <----> CH3OH + H2O, what kind of process is required to apply this equation, and is there a catalyst? If there is, particularly what? We're thinking of applying the method up to the production of methanol.
Page 4, paragraph 2 of the JOC article. Here is a powerpoint presentation of the process. You should already know this.

But from methanol, it needs the MTG process, which is really complicated. Are there possible homemade methods for us students?

Not likely and if I knew how to do it cheaply, low tech, low pressure and at low temperature you'd be paying me every time you filled your gas tank.
 
  • #15


Thank you for the efforts. So now can you suggest any research topics related to petroleum? At least on that we can prove it in our defense. Our initial objective from the topic petrol from air and electricity, is to determine its effectiveness against conventional petrol.
 
  • #16


Sir, it is not elaborated in the JOC perspective on how to capture CO2 from air. But, I found a paper saying, "A classic chemistry experiment is to bubble air through a calcium hydroxide solution and to remove the air’s CO2 in this fashion", by Klaus S. Lackner et. al., Capturing CO2 from air. Now how was the experiment performed there?

Thanks in advance. Cheers
 
  • #17


I suggest you consider the energetics of generating methanol from aerial carbon dioxide and water.

It is your project, you cannot expect us to do it for you.
 
  • #18


Studiot said:
I suggest you consider the energetics of generating methanol from aerial carbon dioxide and water.

It is your project, you cannot expect us to do it for you.

I never expected that you would do it for me. And it is not a project, it is a thesis.

Btw, I don't know what you mean energetics in the generation of alcohol.
 
  • #19


Btw, I don't know what you mean energetics in the generation of alcohol.

Well this is the chemistry forum.

Even if you don't know the chemical reactions involved you can calculate how much energy you have to input to convert four molecules of water and two of carbon dioxide to two of methanol and and three of oxygen.
You can obtain the necessary information to do this from standard tables, your thesis supervisor should be able to help.
 
  • #20


Oh, sir why alcohol? I am a petroleum engineering student. Is it possible for gasoline? And what is its significance for me to calculate the energy required?
 
  • #21


serendipity21 said:
Oh, sir why alcohol? I am a petroleum engineering student. Is it possible for gasoline? And what is its significance for me to calculate the energy required?

Because you mentioned methanol!

You will have to do this for various chemical compounds and see which is the best to produce.

You do realize that you have to input energy to achieve your goal?
 
  • #22
Don't expect them to provide you with all the details - after all, they are working on a technology that they hope to sell or license.
 

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