Chiral Lagrangian symmetry

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the chiral Lagrangian symmetry in the context of massless quarks, specifically focusing on the implications of global flavor symmetries and the anomaly associated with axial symmetries. Participants explore the structure of the symmetry groups involved and the consequences of excluding anomalous symmetries.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents a Lagrangian for two massless quarks and identifies a global flavor symmetry of the form U(2)L × U(2)R.
  • Another participant notes that U(2) can be expressed as SU(2) × U(1), suggesting the presence of U(1)L and U(1)R symmetries.
  • A participant questions how the exclusion of the anomalous axial U(1) symmetry leads to the reduction from U(2)L × U(2)R to SU(2)L × SU(2)R × U(1)V.
  • Another participant inquires about the breakdown of SU(2) × SU(2) into axial and vector components, and whether the generators of the symmetry group can be categorized as axial or vector, specifically asking about the number of generators and their implications for Goldstone bosons.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

The discussion contains multiple competing views regarding the structure and implications of the symmetry groups, particularly concerning the classification of generators and the nature of the axial and vector symmetries. No consensus is reached on these points.

Contextual Notes

Participants express uncertainty about the definitions and implications of the symmetry groups, particularly regarding the treatment of the anomalous axial U(1) symmetry and its effects on the overall symmetry structure.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be useful for those interested in theoretical physics, particularly in the areas of particle physics and group theory as it relates to symmetries in quantum field theories.

LAHLH
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Hi,

If I have the Lagrangian L=i\chi^{\dagger\alpha i}\bar{\sigma}^{\mu}(D_{\mu})_{\alpha}^{\beta}\chi_{\beta i}+i\xi^{\dagger}_{\bar{i}\alpha}\bar{\sigma}^{\mu}(\bar{D}_{\mu})^{\alpha}_{\beta}\xi^{\beta i}-1/4 F^{a\mu\nu}F_{\mu\nu}^{a} where \alpha,\beta are colour indices, and i=1,2 is a flavour index (the Lagrangian is for two massless quarks, approximating u,d quarks only), and spinor indices are supressed. chi and xi are both LH Weyl fiels. See Srednicki ch83 for more details, available free online.

Then it's obvious that this Lagrangian has global flavour symmetry \chi_{\alpha i}\to L_{i}^{j}\chi_{\alpha j}, ,\xi^{\alpha\bar{i}}\to (R*)^{\bar{i}}_{\bar{j}} \xi ^{\alpha\bar{j}}, where L and R* are constant unitary matrices and the c.c. of R just a notational convention. So we have U(2)_L \times U(2)_R sym.

Then I can see that if we set L=R*=e^{i\alpha}I , equivalent to \Psi\to e^{-i\alpha\gamma_5}\Psi in terms of Dirac field then there is an anomaly in this axial U(1) sym, so I presume we just exclude this? then left over is the non-anomlous symmetry. Srednicki says this is SU(2)_L \times SU(2)_R \times U(1)_V, why is this the case? how has excluding this anomlous axial U(1) symmetry reduced U(2)_L\times U(2)_R TO SU(2)_L\times SU(2)_R\times U(1)_V?

thanks for any pointers
 
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U(2) = SU(2) x U(1), maybe mod Z2. It's been a little while. You have the U(1)_L and U(1)_R. Then you define U(1)_V = U(1)_L + U(1)_R and U(1)_A = U(1)_L - U(1)_R.
 
chrispb said:
U(2) = SU(2) x U(1), maybe mod Z2. It's been a little while. You have the U(1)_L and U(1)_R. Then you define U(1)_V = U(1)_L + U(1)_R and U(1)_A = U(1)_L - U(1)_R.

I see, thank you. Don't suppose you know a good reference to read up about this in particular, my group theory is a bit rusty at the moment..
 
I learned most of my group theory from Dresselhaus and Tinkham's Group Theory books, Georgi's Lie Algebras in Particle Physics (available online for free, though not as related to this issue in particular) and Fecko's Differential Geometry and Lie Groups for Physicists. I especially like the last book.
 
I was wondering if anyone could help me understand in more detail how SU(2)XSU(2) breaks into axial and vector parts? Also, am I correct in thinking since SU(2) has 3 generators su(2)xsu(2) has 9? I believe three of these are axial generators? since when they are broken you get three pseudogoldstone pions? So 6 vec gens? how does one see all this, if true?
 

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