Climate Change: Why Doesn't Rising Temperature Balance Out?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the relationship between rising temperatures due to global warming and the behavior of the Earth's atmosphere, particularly why rising temperatures do not lead to a balance through atmospheric expansion and subsequent cooling. It touches on concepts of atmospheric pressure, temperature variations, and the effects of solar activity.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions why rising temperatures do not cause the atmosphere to expand and cool back to equilibrium, suggesting a misunderstanding of the relationship between temperature and atmospheric pressure.
  • Another participant asserts that rising temperatures do lead to atmospheric expansion, but also mention that global warming can cause the atmosphere to contract due to warming occurring lower in the atmosphere, which may cool the upper atmosphere.
  • A third participant references the Skylab incident, noting that solar activity can inflate the upper atmosphere, affecting drag on satellites and implying a connection between solar cycles and atmospheric behavior.
  • Further clarification is provided regarding the thickness of the atmosphere and how temperature and heat are distinct concepts, with temperature affecting atomic movement and heat impacting physical bodies.
  • It is noted that the atmosphere's behavior is complex and not simply analogous to a uniform gas expanding and contracting.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the effects of temperature on atmospheric behavior, with some asserting that rising temperatures lead to contraction in certain layers of the atmosphere, while others emphasize the complexity of the atmosphere's response to temperature changes. No consensus is reached on the overall dynamics at play.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the complexity of atmospheric dynamics, including the influence of altitude on temperature and density, and the role of solar activity, which may not be fully resolved in the discussion.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to individuals exploring the effects of climate change on atmospheric science, as well as those curious about the interplay between temperature, pressure, and solar activity in relation to the Earth's atmosphere.

markulmer
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First, I am not a scientist, so this may be a stupid question. But with all the concern about global warming - and given that temperature and pressure are related - why doesn’t rising temperature cause the atmosphere to expand outward and the temperature to fall as a result, back to an equilibrium? After all, Earth is surrounding by the vacuum of space.
 
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markulmer said:
First, I am not a scientist, so this may be a stupid question. But with all the concern about global warming - and given that temperature and pressure are related - why doesn’t rising temperature cause the atmosphere to expand outward and the temperature to fall as a result, back to an equilibrium? After all, Earth is surrounding by the vacuum of space.
Welcome to PF!

The answer is: it does! And not just due to global warming, but due to weather and solar activity.

Interestingly, google tells me that overall global warming will (has?) cause the atmosphere to contract because the warming happens low in the atmosphere, which then causes cooling in the upper atmosphere:
http://www.ucar.edu/news/releases/2006/thermosphere.shtml
 
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skylab

Came down rather earlier than NASA expected due 'solar cycle' inflating upper atmosphere and significantly increasing drag.

Upside of this effect is each 'Solar Max' clears a lot of debris from low orbit. Down-side is we may be facing a 'long minimum'...
 
To help understand it's important to remember the atmosphere is about 300 miles thick. To put that in perspective the international space station orbits at 254 miles, so it's technically not even in outer space yet. Though the vast majority of the atmosphere is kept much closer. So the density changes a lot which also has an effect on temperature.

It's important to understand that a high temp and heat are not exactly the same. Temperature indicates how quickly atoms are moving. Heat indicates it's impact on the body. As you go up in altitude it gets colder decreasing in temp. But when you hit the stratosphere the composition of air changes and temp actually starts to increase. At the top of the stratosphere the temp is basically the same as ground level. But the air is so thin that high you'd still freeze to death.

So if the atmosphere were a uniform gas it would expand and contract due to temp such as you'd see in air in a balloon. But the atmosphere is a bit more complicated and requires further explanation.
 

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