Closed and Bounded Intervals are Compact .... Sohrab, Propostion 4.1.9 .... ....

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the proof of Proposition 4.1.9 from Houshang H. Sohrab's "Basic Real Analysis," specifically focusing on the compactness of closed and bounded intervals. Participants seek clarification on the rigorous justification for certain steps in the proof, particularly regarding the existence of a point within a specified interval and the implications for covering intervals with finite subcovers.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Peter questions the rigorous justification for the existence of a point \(d\) in the interval \((c, c + \epsilon)\) such that \(c < d < b\) when \(c < b\).
  • One participant suggests that \(d\) can be chosen as a point between \(c\) and \(\min(c + \epsilon, b)\), implying that such a \(d\) exists.
  • Peter also asks for clarification on why the interval \([a, d]\) can be covered by a finite subcover, given that \(d\) is in the open set covering the interval.
  • Another participant corrects their earlier response, noting that there may not be a finite cover for the interval \([a, c)\) since it is not compact, and emphasizes that \(c\) may not be in the set \(S\).
  • The same participant explains that for any \(x\) in the interval \((a, c)\), there exists a finite cover \(U_x\) for \([a, x]\), and that combining this with the open set covering \((c - \epsilon, c + \epsilon)\) leads to a cover for \([a, d]\).
  • Peter acknowledges the correction and expresses appreciation for the guidance provided.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the existence of a finite cover for the interval \([a, c)\) and the implications of \(c\) being in the set \(S\). The discussion remains unresolved regarding the completeness of the proof and the conditions under which the claims hold.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations regarding the assumptions about the compactness of intervals and the dependence on the definitions of the sets involved. The proof's steps are not fully resolved, particularly concerning the coverage of intervals and the properties of the set \(S\).

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Closed and Bounded Intervals are Compact ... Sohrab, Proposition 4.1.9 ... ...

I am reading Houshang H. Sohrab's book: "Basic Real Analysis" (Second Edition).

I am focused on Chapter 4: Topology of [FONT=MathJax_AMS]R and Continuity ... ...

I need help in order to fully understand the proof of Proposition 4.1.9 ...Proposition 4.1.9 and its proof read as follows:
View attachment 9091
My questions are as follows:Question 1

In the above proof by Sohrab we read the following:

" ... ... Now, if $$c \lt b$$, then we can pick $$d \in ( c, c + \epsilon )$$ such that $$c \lt d \lt b$$ ... ... "My question is as follows:

How (... rigorously speaking ... ) do we know such a $$d$$ exists ...

In other words, what is the rigorous justification that if $$c \lt b$$, the we can pick $$d \in ( c, c + \epsilon )$$ such that $$c \lt d \lt b$$ ... ...?

Question 2

In the above proof by Sohrab we read the following:

" ... ... Now, if $$c \lt b$$, then we can pick $$d \in ( c, c + \epsilon )$$ such that $$c \lt d \lt b$$, and it follows that $$[a,d ]$$ can also be covered by a finite subcover. i.e. $$d \in S$$ ... ... "Can someone please explain why/how it follows that $$[a,d ]$$ can also be covered by a finite subcover. i.e. $$d \in S$$ ... ... ?

Help will be appreciated ...

Peter
 

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Hi Peter,

For question 1, since $c<b$ and $\epsilon>0$, you can take $d$ between $c$ and $\min(c+\epsilon,b)$.

For question 2, since $c<d<c+\epsilon$, and $(c-\epsilon,c+\epsilon)\subset O_\lambda$, $d\in O_\lambda$, and you can add $O_\lambda$ to the finite cover of $[a,c)$ to get a finite cover of $[a,d]$.
 
Hi Peter,

My answer of question 2 is not quite correct. In fact, we do not necessarily have a finite cover of the interval $[a,c)$ (which is not compact).

We do not know if $c\in S$. What we do know is that, for any $x$ with $a<x<c$, we have a finite cover $U_x$ of $[a,x]$. We can take $x$ between $c-\epsilon$ and $c$, which gives the inequalities:
$$
a<c-\epsilon<x<c<d<c+\epsilon
$$
Now, $U_x$ covers $[a,x]$ and $O_\lambda$ covers $(c-\epsilon,c+\epsilon)$ (which contains $d$); therefore $U_x\cup O_\lambda$ covers $[a,d]$; this means that $d\in S$, which contradicts $c=\sup S$.
 
castor28 said:
Hi Peter,

My answer of question 2 is not quite correct. In fact, we do not necessarily have a finite cover of the interval $[a,c)$ (which is not compact).

We do not know if $c\in S$. What we do know is that, for any $x$ with $a<x<c$, we have a finite cover $U_x$ of $[a,x]$. We can take $x$ between $c-\epsilon$ and $c$, which gives the inequalities:
$$
a<c-\epsilon<x<c<d<c+\epsilon
$$
Now, $U_x$ covers $[a,x]$ and $O_\lambda$ covers $(c-\epsilon,c+\epsilon)$ (which contains $d$); therefore $U_x\cup O_\lambda$ covers $[a,d]$; this means that $d\in S$, which contradicts $c=\sup S$.

Thanks for the guidance and assistance ... and the correction ...

Most helpful ...

Peter
 

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