News Community Reacts to Apple vs FBI Story

[Astronuc]

The conflict between the DOJ/FBI and Apple is moot - Justice Department cracks iPhone; withdraws legal action

A law enforcement official said the FBI was successful in unlocking the iPhone over the weekend. The official spoke to reporters on condition of anonymity because he wasn't authorized to publicly comment. The official said federal law enforcement would continue to aid its local and state partners with gaining evidence in cases — implying that the method would be shared with them.

First in line is likely, Manhattan District Attorney Cyrus Vance, who told a U.S. House panel earlier this month that he has 205 iPhones his investigators can't access data from in criminal investigations. Apple is also opposing requests to help extract information from 14 Apple devices in California, Illinois, Massachusetts and New York.

 

[gjonesy]

Agreed BUT...if left to discover a way to decrypt this information on their own the (FBI) would undoubtedly misuse the technology if they can develop it. If the manufacture is involved there is no risk of proprietary copy or misuse...they have a stake in HELPING the FBI. The product itself would be less compromised and proprietary secrets could remain secrets. Although I'm sure the FBI would demand "how they did it" and the company apple could fight any further litigation via copyright laws. There is no need to give away the secret recipe just give them a peek under the crust. IMHO.

Yes very true, and I get what you're saying, I'm just saying that the company itself has a stake in this. And who's to say that if they help the software they create is going to fall into the wrong hands?

^----------the infamous post 336.

https://www.staradvertiser.com/busi...can-unlock-terrorists-iphone-prosecutors-say/
Statement 1. apple can open this phone and has a stake in doing it "in house" to protect its own product.

Apple uses its private signing key to authenticate (signed code) the FBI requested software is a valid program for the existing firmware on the phone to install unconditionally if it's also in the correct format. The FBI is not asking for (yet) and does not get the private key, they only get code signed with it. In theory if Apple designed the code to only work with the one phones internal serial or ID key it would be impossible to use it on other phones without altering (changing the hash) of the signed code and invalidating the 'OK to install' authentication.

^ Apple's co-operation I personally believe could have prevented the current situation.

Sounds like they were successful.
http://wpo.st/zt1Q1

A law enforcement official said the FBI was successful in unlocking the iPhone over the weekend. The official spoke to reporters on condition of anonymity because he wasn't authorized to publicly comment. The official said federal law enforcement would continue to aid its local and state partners with gaining evidence in cases — implying that the method would be shared with them.

First in line is likely, Manhattan District Attorney Cyrus Vance, who told a U.S. House panel earlier this month that he has 205 iPhones his investigators can't access data from in criminal investigations. Apple is also opposing requests to help extract information from 14 Apple devices in California, Illinois, Massachusetts and New York.

That genie is out of the bottle now, and apple is probably going to have a fight on its hand to get that genie back in.

the real danger is leaving it to the FBI unaided to find out on their own. What if they find and hire someone who can, what if they let the information leak. They just might do that for spite cause apple fought

^ also from post 336
See how these things RELATE now?

What they have now amounts to a cracking method that can be used and abused.

 

[gleem]

That genie is out of the bottle now, and apple is probably going to have a fight on its hand to get that genie back in.

'
Like putting the toothpaste back into the tube. Apple was between a rock and a hard place. I'm not that computer savvy but it seem that if you create data it is recoverable unless it is destroyed. In the old days of spying encrypted info was passed hand to hand on paper which was then burned. Why do people keep incriminating info anyway. One thing I don't understand is that police etc can come into your home "sanctum sanctorum" with a proper warrant and search it. What makes a phone special that it should be exempt?

 

[gjonesy]

Yes very true, and I get what you're saying, I'm just saying that the company itself has a stake in this. And who's to say that if they help the software they create is going to fall into the wrong hands? they don't even have to create the key on a computer connected to the web,(so it couldn't be hacked and stolen) stuff like that (the authentication sign in key) can be made as secure as the encryption itself, the real danger is leaving it to the FBI unaided to find out on their own. What if they find and hire someone who can,(pretty much exactly what they did) what if they let the information leak. (pretty much exactly what happened)They just might do that for spite cause apple fought them on it. (and now they are probably going to share that information with other agencies that have looser cyber security protocols)

^^^^^^^^^^post #336Can people see how each one of these statements lead pretty much one right after the other up to the current events of today?

Please feel free to take any two statements from your post #336 and show how one leads to the other.

Funny ol world isn't it,...lol And now pretty self explanatory!

 

[Borg]

If A and B therefore C is not a valid conclusion no matter how many times you quote yourself.

 

[jim hardy]

Hmm

seems to me
that this little software company
http://www.cellebrite.com/Pages/ios-forensics-physical-extraction-decoding-and-analysis-from-ios-devices
was so easily able to get into the phone
says no phones are really secure.

Cellebrite mobile forensics solutions give access to and unlock the intelligence of mobile data sources ...

In other words, as kids have said ever since radio came about

"...don't broadcast secrets .."

 

[gjonesy]

If A and B therefore C is not a valid conclusion no matter how many times you quote yourself.

Ok whatever you say, I won't argue that point with you!..lol.. keep telling yourself that, what ever makes you feel better about it.

People can read and decide on their own without mine or your opinion injected into the mix.

 

[nsaspook]

In other words, as kids have said ever since radio came about

"...don't broadcast secrets .."

"Never say anything on the phone that you wouldn't want your mother to hear at your trial"

 

[gjonesy]

Like putting the toothpaste back into the tube. Apple was between a rock and a hard place. I'm not that computer savvy but it seem that if you create data it is recoverable unless it is destroyed.

Some phones do just that, after so many failed attempts at cracking a phone, some lock so that only the manufacturer can open it. Some OS wipe the phone, others just keep it encrypted, some phones like mine have a remote feature and option that if lost or stolen you can delete your information remotely.

Seems like there really is no totally secure method, just counter measures that sometimes work. In this case the FBI probably spent an ungodly amount of money to get some limited and maybe even useless data. I think this has turned into something more akin to (proving a point) then it is about anything else now.

 

[jim hardy]

Seems like there really is no totally secure method, just counter measures that sometimes work. In this case the FBI probably spent an ungodly amount of money to get some limited and maybe even useless data.

Somebody posted edit- the alleged actual purchase order to Cellebrite on 'net.
Was not much money , either $1,500 or $15,000 i think - i remember thinking it trivial.
edit no luck so far and the report is now being discredited...

claim withdrawn... jh

 

[1oldman2]

Somebody posted the actual purchase order to Cellebrite on 'net.
Was not much money , either $1,500 or $15,000 i think - i remember thinking it trivial.

if can find it again i'll post it.

That would be post #377,
http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/...helping-fbi-unlock-seized-iphone-report-says/

 

[1oldman2]

And this just in...
http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-police-phone-access-san-bernardino-20160329-story.html

 

[1oldman2]

Followed by...
http://www.latimes.com/business/technology/la-fi-tn-apple-next-steps-20160330-story.html

 

[gjonesy]

This looks a little more like what Id expect.

https://www.fpds.gov/ezsearch/fpdsportal?indexName=awardfull&templateName=1.4&s=FPDS&q=+cellebrite+usa+corp+2016+CONTRACTING_AGENCY_NAME%3A%22FEDERAL+BUREAU+OF+INVESTIGATION%22
Award ID (Mod#):DJF161200G0004569 (View)[/PLAIN] Award Type: PURCHASE ORDER
Vendor Name: CELLEBRITE USA CORP Contracting Agency: FEDERAL BUREAU OF INVESTIGATION
Date Signed: March 28, 2016 Action Obligation: $218,004.85
Referenced IDV: Contracting Office: DEPT OF JUST/FEDERAL BUREAU OF INVESTIGATION
NAICS (Code): RADIO AND TELEVISION BROADCASTING AND WIRELESS COMMUNICATIONS EQUIPMENT MANUFACTURING ( 334220 ) PSC (Code): INFORMATION TECHNOLOGY SUPPLIES ( 7045 )
Vendor City: PARSIPPANY Vendor DUNS: 033095568
Vendor State: NJ Vendor ZIP: 070544413
Global Vendor Name: CELLEBRITE USA CORP Global DUNS Number: 033095568

Over 200 grand

 

[1oldman2]

And the cats out of the bag now.
http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-arkansas-fbi-phone-access-20160330-story.html

 

[jim hardy]

paywall on LATimes link

what's up with Arkansas ?

 

[1oldman2]

paywall on LATimes link

what's up with Arkansas ?

http://www.foxnews.com/tech/2016/03...-in-arkansas-homicide-case.html?intcmp=hplnws

sorry didn't realize the paywall aspect.

just saw this also, hadn't heard about it yet.
http://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/...-also-been-ordered-to-help-unlock-phones.html

 

[Astronuc]

Apple still doesn’t know how the FBI hacked iPhone without help
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/apple-remains-dark-fbi-hacked-072634235.html

The FBI’s announcement that it mysteriously hacked into an iPhone is a public setback for Apple Inc., as consumers learned that they can’t keep the government out of even an encrypted device that U.S. officials had claimed was impossible to crack. Apple, meanwhile, remains in the dark about how to restore the security of its flagship product.

A few clues have emerged. A senior law enforcement official told The Associated Press that the FBI managed to defeat an Apple security feature that threatened to delete the phone’s contents if the FBI failed to enter the correct passcode combination after 10 tries. That allowed the government to repeatedly and continuously test passcodes in what’s known as a brute-force attack until the right code is entered and the phone is unlocked.

 

[Evo]

Apple still doesn’t know how the FBI hacked iPhone without help
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/apple-remains-dark-fbi-hacked-072634235.html

Do honest average Americans really have to fear this level of hacking into their phones if they have done nothing..NO.

 

[Dembadon]

Do honest average Americans really have to fear this level of hacking into their phones if they have done nothing..NO.

The worry of the average person isn't that law enforcement would get into their phone, but that criminals or identity thieves might be able to. I have a lot of contacts in my phone (many include addresses) that I wouldn't want just anyone to have, especially if their intent is malicious.

 

[Evo]

The worry of the average person isn't that law enforcement would get into their phone, but that criminals or identity thieves might be able to. I have a lot of contacts in my phone (many include addresses) that I wouldn't want just anyone to have, especially if their intent is malicious.

A good argument. Personally, I keep all of my phone contacts off of my phone, a bit more work, but less to worry about.

 

[Dembadon]

A good argument. Personally, I keep all of my phone contacts off of my phone, a bit more work, but less to worry about.

Probably a good idea. I've been gradually moving away from having important information stored electronically over the past 6 months or so. I don't store things like my tax documents locally on my computer anymore. So many programs are linked to "the cloud" now that I'm not sure I trust having that type of information in a place I can't control, or that cloud-linked programs might have some vulnerability that could allow local access to my machine.

 

[nsaspook]

Apple still doesn’t know how the FBI hacked iPhone without help
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/apple-remains-dark-fbi-hacked-072634235.html

I don't think that's completely the case with Apple. They (most companies do) have an internal group to find vulnerabilities in their products so the likely hardware exploit used in this case is unlikely to work with the latest phones and future models will be even more secure due to this case publishing possible hacks.

 

[Evo]

Probably a good idea. I've been gradually moving away from having important information stored electronically over the past 6 months or so. I don't store things like my tax documents locally on my computer anymore. So many programs are linked to "the cloud" now that I'm not sure I trust having that type of information in a place I can't control, or that cloud-linked programs might have some vulnerability that could allow local access to my machine.

Yeah, I don't trust that the information I share in the "cloud" is secure.

 

[zoobyshoe]

Yeah, I don't trust that the information I share in the "cloud" is secure.

People may or may not remember the celebrity phone hacks by tabloids a few years back:
http://www.theguardian.com/media/20...o-pay-1-2m-to-celebrity-phone-hacking-victims
You may not be a celebrity, but anyone can pick up a stalker, or someone trying to run some kind of scam. If you keep any texts or voicemails, there's probably a way to get into them.

 

[jim hardy]

Yeah, I don't trust that the information I share in the "cloud" is secure.

E-filed income tax?
I'm glad to be a small target . It's the best one can do these days.

 

[Astronuc]

The company that apparently helped the FBI. Little-Known Japan Firm Helping the FBI Crack iPhones

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...nown-japan-firm-helping-the-fbi-crack-iphones

Cellebrite Mobile Synchronization Ltd. worked with the FBI to crack an iPhone connected in a terrorist attack, according to people familiar with the matter, who asked not to be identified as the matter is private. Neither Cellebrite nor the FBI have confirmed the link, and a spokesman from parent Sun Corp. on Thursday said the company isn’t able to comment on specific criminal cases.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...work-with-israel-s-cellebrite-to-crack-iphone

The FBI was already a Cellebrite client before this project, the people said, who asked not to be identified as the matter is private. Cellebrite, founded in 1999, is a unit of Japan’s Sun Corporation.

 

[1oldman2]

This seems a bit like Deja Vu after reading comments made earlier in the thread.
http://in.reuters.com/article/apple-encryption-fbi-idINKCN0X001O

 

[Astronuc]

The FBI’s ability to hack into an iPhone may not last much longer
https://www.yahoo.com/tech/fbi-ability-hack-iphone-may-001209987.html

I presume that iPhones already in possession of law enforcement will be unlocked, since they will not be updated with a fix for the flaw. New iPhones will probably have more robust security. At least one would think.

 

[Astronuc]

Here we go again.

A US federal judge in Massachusetts has ordered Apple to help the FBI unlock an iPhone in a gang case, court documents unsealed Friday revealed -- opening a new front in the government's battle with the high-tech giant over encryption.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/us-pushes-apple-iphone-access-two-more-cases-065722785.html