Compact Topological Spaces .... Stromberg, Theorem 3.36 .... ....

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around understanding the proof of Theorem 3.36 from Karl R. Stromberg's "An Introduction to Classical Real Analysis," specifically focusing on the properties of compact topological spaces and the implications of certain neighborhoods in relation to the theorem. The scope includes theoretical aspects of topology, particularly concerning limits and continuity.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Peter seeks clarification on how to rigorously demonstrate that the neighborhood $$U$$ is a subset of the complement $$S'$$ of the set $$S$$.
  • Some participants argue that if $$U \not\subset S'$$, then there exists an element $$u$$ in both $$U$$ and $$S$$, leading to a contradiction with the disjoint nature of the sets involved.
  • Another participant emphasizes the essential nature of the compactness of $$S$$ for the theorem's validity, suggesting that the argument relies on having a finite subcover.
  • Peter questions whether an infinite cover could work with modified arguments, expressing uncertainty about the necessity of a finite cover.
  • It is noted that the intersection of open sets can lead to non-open sets, as illustrated by an example from the real numbers, highlighting the importance of finite intersections in ensuring that $$U$$ remains a neighborhood of $$x$$.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the necessity of compactness and the implications of using finite versus infinite covers. There is no consensus on whether an infinite cover could suffice in this context.

Contextual Notes

The discussion touches on the limitations of infinite intersections in topology and the specific conditions under which certain properties hold, particularly regarding neighborhoods and compactness.

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I am reading Karl R. Stromberg's book: "An Introduction to Classical Real Analysis". ... ...

I am focused on Chapter 3: Limits and Continuity ... ...

I need help in order to fully understand the proof of Theorem 3.36 on page 102 ... ... Theorem 3.36 and its proof read as follows:

View attachment 9134

In the above proof by Stromberg we read the following:

" ... ...Next let $$U = \bigcap_{ k = 1 }^n U_{ y_k }$$. Then $$U$$ is a neighbourhood of $$x$$ and $$U \subset S'$$ ... "
My question is as follows:

It seems plausible that $$U \subset S'$$ ... ...

... ... BUT ... ...

... how would we demonstrate rigorously that $$U \subset S'$$ ... ... ?

(Note that $$S'$$ is $$S$$ complement ...)

Help will be much appreciated ... ...

Peter=================================================================================The above post mentions Hausdorff spaces ... so I am providing access to Stromberg's definition of a Hausdorff space ... as follows:
View attachment 9135I believe it may be helpful to MHB readers to have access to some of Stromberg's terminology and notation associated with topological spaces ... so I am providig access to the same ... as follows:
View attachment 9136

Hope that helps ... ...

Peter
 

Attachments

  • Stromberg - Theorem 3.36 ... .png
    Stromberg - Theorem 3.36 ... .png
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  • Stromberg -  Defn 3.20 ... Defn of a Hausdorff Space .... .png
    Stromberg - Defn 3.20 ... Defn of a Hausdorff Space .... .png
    3.5 KB · Views: 135
  • Stromberg -  Defn 3.11  ... Terminology for Topological Spaces ... .png
    Stromberg - Defn 3.11 ... Terminology for Topological Spaces ... .png
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Hi Peter,

If $U\not\subset S'$, there is an element $u\in U\cap S$. Since the $V_y$ cover $S$, $u\in V_{y_n}$ for some $n$.

On the other hand, as $u\in U$, $u\in U_{y_k}$ for all $k$. In particular, $u\in U_{y_n}$ and this contradicts the fact that $U_{y_n}$ and $V_{y_n}$ are disjoint.

Note that the fact that $S$ is compact is essential (the theorem would obviously be false otherwise); do you see why?
 
For each $k$, $U_{y_k}$ is disjoint from $U_{y_k}$. Therefore $U$ is disjoint from $V_{y_k}$ (because $U\subseteq U_{y_k}$). That holds for each $k$, and so $U$ is disjoint from $$ \bigcup_{k=1}^n V_{y_k} = V$$. But $S\subseteq V$, so $U$ is disjoint from $S$, in other words $U\subseteq S'$.Edit. Sorry, I didn't see that castor28 had already replied.
 
castor28 said:
Hi Peter,

If $U\not\subset S'$, there is an element $u\in U\cap S$. Since the $V_y$ cover $S$, $u\in V_{y_n}$ for some $n$.

On the other hand, as $u\in U$, $u\in U_{y_k}$ for all $k$. In particular, $u\in U_{y_n}$ and this contradicts the fact that $U_{y_n}$ and $V_{y_n}$ are disjoint.

Note that the fact that $S$ is compact is essential (the theorem would obviously be false otherwise); do you see why?

Thanks castor28 ... ...

You write:

" ... ... Note that the fact that $S$ is compact is essential (the theorem would obviously be false otherwise); do you see why? ... ... "Intriguing question ... Not sure I see why ... can you help ...

Mind you ... the argument given depends on having a finite subcover of S which arises via compactness ... but do we really need a finite cover ... would an infinite cover work with slightly amended arguments ... again ... I am not sure ...Peter

- - - Updated - - -

Opalg said:
For each $k$, $U_{y_k}$ is disjoint from $U_{y_k}$. Therefore $U$ is disjoint from $V_{y_k}$ (because $U\subseteq U_{y_k}$). That holds for each $k$, and so $U$ is disjoint from $$ \bigcup_{k=1}^n V_{y_k} = V$$. But $S\subseteq V$, so $U$ is disjoint from $S$, in other words $U\subseteq S'$.Edit. Sorry, I didn't see that castor28 had already replied.

Thanks for the hep, Opalg ...

Peter
 
Hi Peter,

You need that to ensure that $U$ is a neighborhood of $x$. In a topological space, any union or any finite intersection of open sets is open, but that does not hold for infinite intersections.

For example, in $\mathbb{R}$, the intersection of the open intervals $\{(-x,x)\mid x\ne0\}$ is the singleton $\{0\}$, which is not open.
 
castor28 said:
Hi Peter,

You need that to ensure that $U$ is a neighborhood of $x$. In a topological space, any union or any finite intersection of open sets is open, but that does not hold for infinite intersections.

For example, in $\mathbb{R}$, the intersection of the open intervals $\{(-x,x)\mid x\ne0\}$ is the singleton $\{0\}$, which is not open.

Thanks for that really subtle and interesting point, castor28 ...

Peter
 

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