Compactness of Sets in Real Numbers: A Proof Using Closed Subsets

  • Thread starter Thread starter Treadstone 71
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Compact Set
Click For Summary

Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of compactness in the context of real numbers, specifically focusing on the equivalence of compactness and the finite intersection property of closed subsets. The original poster presents a statement that requires proof regarding the conditions under which a set K is considered compact.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification, Assumption checking, Problem interpretation

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants explore the definition of compactness and its implications, questioning the relationship between compactness and the finite intersection property of closed sets. There is a discussion on whether the problem statement is clear and what logical steps need to be taken to prove the equivalence.

Discussion Status

Several participants are engaged in clarifying the definitions and implications of the problem. Some suggest using the finite subcover property of compact sets, while others express confusion about the logical structure of the proof. There is an ongoing exploration of conditions necessary for a collection of closed sets to have nonempty intersection.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the definition of compactness being used may differ from standard definitions, leading to confusion. The discussion also highlights the distinction between closed sets in the context of real numbers versus topological spaces.

Treadstone 71
Messages
275
Reaction score
0
Suppose [tex]K\subset\mathbb{R}[/tex]. Prove that K is compact [tex]\Leftrightarrow[/tex] (whatever be the indexing set I, [tex]i\in I, F{i}\subset\mathbb{R}[/tex], [tex]F_i[/tex] are closed such that for all finite [tex]J\subset I[/tex], with [tex]\bigcap_{i\in J}F_i\bigcap K\neq\emptyset\Rightarrow\bigcap_{i\in I}F_i\bigcap K\neq\emptyset[/tex]).

I can't make sense of this question.

It's in the form [tex]A\Leftrightarrow(B\Rightarrow C)[/tex]
 
Last edited:
Physics news on Phys.org
It says that K is compact iff given ANY collection of closed subsets of K, then if any finite subcollection of those subsets has nonempty intersection, then the whole collection has nonempty intersection. A collection of sets is said to have the finite intersection property iff any finite subecollection has nonempty intersection. So you're asked to prove that K is compact iff any collection of closed subsets of K with the finite intersection property has nonempty intersection.

I'm sorry if the above doesn't clarify the question any better. Anyways, the main idea is to use the finite subcovering property of compact sets, together with DeMorgan's law.
 
But any collection of closed subsets of K with the finite intersection property has nonempty interesction by definition.
 
Well, you can take that to be a definition for compact sets. If you do, then the thing you're asked to prove follows immediately by definition. Often, compactness is defined differently, and so you have to prove that this condition is equivalent, and is thus permissible as a definition. But, if you do indeed have this given as a definition for compactness, then unless I'm missing some subtle issue, there's really nothing to prove.
 
No, we defined compactness with finite subcover property. I'm not entirely sure what you mean by "K is compact iff any collection of closed subsets of K with the finite intersection property has nonempty intersection" since "a collection of sets is said to have the finite intersection property iff any finite subecollection has nonempty intersection".

But logically, what do I have to prove? (A and B => C) and (B=>C)=>A? I'm not entirely clear about the statement.

All my attempts have failed. Can you write down a first step?
 
Last edited:
I'm not entirely sure what you mean by "K is compact iff any collection of closed subsets of K with the finite intersection property has nonempty intersection" since "a collection of sets is said to have the finite intersection property iff any finite subecollection has nonempty intersection".

We say a collection of sets C has the finite intersection property iff for all finite subsets F of C, [itex]\bigcap_{S\in F}S[/itex] is nonempty.

We say that a collection of sets C has nonempty intersection iff [itex]\bigcap_{S\in C}S[/itex] is nonempty.

The stuff you need to prove is:

Suppose K is a compact space, and suppose C is any collection of closed subsets of K. If C has the finite intersection property, then C has nonempty intersection. Conversely, suppose K is some space. Suppose that if C is a collection of closed subsets of K with the finite intersection property also has nonempty intersection. Then K is compact.

This is equivalent to:

Suppose K is a compact space, and suppose C is any collection of closed subsets of K. If C has the finite intersection property, then C has nonempty intersection. Conversely, suppose K is not compact. Then there exists a collection C of closed subsets of K with the finite intersection property but with empty intersection.

So what you have to prove is of the form [itex]A\Leftrightarrow(B\Rightarrow D)[/itex] where A is the sentence "K is compact", B is the sentence "C is a collection of closed subsets of K with the finite intersection property", and D is the sentence, "C has nonempty intersection."

Like I said, the proof just requires the finite subcover formulation of compactness, together with DeMorgan's law. As a hint, consider some arbitrary collection

[tex]\mathcal{C} = \{C_i\}_{i\in I}\mbox{ where }(\forall i\in I)(C_i \subset K\mbox{ is closed})[/tex]

Now consider the collection of open subsets of K:

[tex]\mathcal{O} = \{K - C_i : i \in I\}[/tex]

This is just a collection of open sets, it need not necessarily cover K. What condition on [itex]\mathcal{C}[/itex] is necessary and sufficient for [itex]\mathcal{O}[/itex] to be an open cover of K?
 
Last edited:
How did you conclude that K-C_i is open? It might be neither closed nor open.
 
If X is a space, and A is a subset of X, then A is closed in X iff X-A is open in X. So K-Ci may not be an open subset of R, but it is an open subset of K. The problem probably is that you're used to thinking of compactness being a property of subsets of Rn, as opposed to a property of topological spaces. You're also probably thinking that an open cover is a collection of open subsets of Rn that cover K, rather than a collection of "open" subsets of K that cover K, where being open simply means that it is an element of K's topology, and not that it is a union of intervals (a,b), necessarily.

Anyways, stick to what you know for now. So instead, let's say that:

[tex]\mathcal{C} = \{C_i\}_{i\in I}\mbox{ where }(\forall i\in I)(C_i \subset \mathbb{R}\mbox{ is closed})[/tex]

[tex]\mathcal{O} = \{\mathbb{R} - C_i : i \in I\}[/tex]

I ask the same question: what condition on [itex]\mathcal{C}[/itex] is necessary and sufficient for [itex]\mathcal{O}[/itex] to be an open cover of K?
 
[tex](\cup C_i)\cap K=\emptyset[/tex].
 
  • #10
Close, but not quite.
 
  • #11
I don't think I have any unnecessary conditions, since if [tex]\cup C_i[/tex] does not share any points with K, then surely its complement contains K. However, arbitrary union of closed sets might be open, or not closed. So I'm guessing there's an extra condition of [tex]\cup C_i[/tex] being closed?
 
Last edited:
  • #12
[tex]\bigcup_{i\in I}\left(\mathbb{R}-C_i\right) \supset K[/tex]
iff
[tex]\left(\bigcup_{i\in I}\left(\mathbb{R}-C_i\right)\right)^C \subset K^C[/tex]
iff
[tex]\bigcap_{i\in I}\left(\mathbb{R}-C_i\right)^C \subset K^C[/tex]
iff
[tex]\bigcap_{i\in I}C_i \subset K^C[/tex]
iff
[tex]\left(\bigcap_{i\in I}C_i\right) \cap K = \emptyset[/tex]
iff
[tex]\bigcap_{i\in I}\left (C_i\cap K\right) = \emptyset[/tex]
 
Last edited:
  • #13
Let K=[0,1] and C1, C2 to be 0 and 1. [tex]\bigcap_{i\in I}\left (C_i\cap K\right) = \emptyset[/tex], but R-C1 U R-C2 is not an open cover for K.
 
  • #14
Yes it is.
 
  • #15
Oh ya, it is.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 12 ·
Replies
12
Views
3K
Replies
1
Views
2K
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 14 ·
Replies
14
Views
3K
  • · Replies 14 ·
Replies
14
Views
3K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K
Replies
20
Views
5K
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
1K