Comparing Path Integral Conventions in QED

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the different conventions used in Quantum Electrodynamics (QED), particularly focusing on the Lagrangian formulations and the path integral expressions. Participants explore the implications of using different conventions, such as the Lorentzian versus Euclidean formulations, and how these affect the physical interpretation of the path integral.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant notes a difference in the Lagrangian expressions for QED, highlighting the use of different signs and exponential factors in the path integral.
  • Another participant suggests that the difference in path integral expressions may indicate that a Wick rotation has been applied in one of the texts.
  • A different participant identifies the first convention as indicative of the west-coast convention and Minkowski-space path integrals, while the second convention suggests the use of Euclidean path integrals with a positive definite metric.
  • Further elaboration indicates that the transition from Lorentzian to Euclidean formulations involves a transformation that makes the path integral convergent, but also points out that there are additional conventional differences that need to be considered.
  • Specific conventions regarding metrics, fermion signs, and other factors are mentioned as contributing to the differences in formulations, emphasizing the need for careful consideration of these conventions when comparing sources.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the implications of the conventions used in QED, with no consensus reached on a single interpretation or approach. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the best way to reconcile these differences.

Contextual Notes

Participants mention various conventions that can lead to different signs and factors in the equations, indicating that the discussion is contingent on the definitions and assumptions made in each source. The complexity of these conventions suggests that a thorough understanding requires careful examination of the specific texts referenced.

dman12
Messages
11
Reaction score
0
Hello. I am doing some reading on QED and am getting a bit confused on the different conventions used. In Matthew Schwartz's book we have the Lagrangian given as:

LQED = -¼ FμνFμν + iψ*γμ(∂μ + ieAμ)ψ - V(ψ*ψ)

And the path integral factor is exp(iS).

In another text, however, I see the QED lagrangian given as:

LQED = ¼ FμνFμν + ψ*γμ(∂μ + eAμ)ψ - V(ψ*ψ)

And the exponential factor in the path integral is exp(-S).

How can I see that these two conventions are physically the same? In particular, what is the difference between using exp(iS) and exp(-S) in the path integral?

Thanks!
 
Physics news on Phys.org
dman12 said:
In another text

This, unfortunately, does not tell us very much. My guess would be that a Wick rotation has already been applied to the second case.
 
Yes, the first convention hints at that the book uses the west-coast convention and Minkowski-space path intgrals (that's indeed true for Schwartz's marvelous text which I tend to recommend as a first textbook on QFT instead of Ryder or Peskin/Schroeder). The other convention hints at that the author is writing down Euclidean path integrals with the positive definite metric.
 
dman12 said:
How can I see that these two conventions are physically the same? In particular, what is the difference between using exp(iS) and exp(-S) in the path integral?

Thanks!

Your main question is easy --they have gone from the Lorentzian to the Euclidean (aka "Wick rotated") via a transformation of the kind:

t \to i \tau \, ,

which is allowed under many physical circumstances, so long as the contour integration and analytic continuation is appropriately taken into account. In the case of the path integral, it is almost exclusively done to make the path integral overtly convergent. (The minus sign in the spacetime metric makes Gaussian and similar approximations sketchy, but if you can convince yourself you can Wick rotate, these problems become manifestly convergent.)

HOWEVER: These two groups are using other conventional differences, too, if I'm not mistaken, including having separate fermion conventions. Note that there are various conventions for:

\eta = (\pm 1, \mp 1, \mp 1, \mp 1)
\varepsilon^{0123} = \pm 1
\{ \gamma^{\mu} , \gamma^{\nu} \} = \pm 2 \eta^{\mu\nu}
\bar{\psi} = \pm (\psi)^{\dagger} \gamma^0
G(x-y) = \int \frac{d^3 k}{(2\pi)^4} \frac{\pm e^{i k \cdot (x-y)}} {k^2 \mp m^2}
(\psi_{\alpha} \chi_{\beta})^{\dagger} = \pm \chi_{\beta}\,^{\dagger} \psi_{\alpha}\,^{\dagger}

and so forth. And they all lead to different i's, minus signs, ##2\pi##'s etc. They all have to be checked against unitarity (e.g. vacuum persistence amplitude in the presence of a source is simple enough for most of it), that it has a positive-definite, canonically normalized Hamiltonian, etc. It is best to pick a convention (I recommend Srednicki's for its completeness and modernity) and derive the action for yourself. It's generally not easy to compute things from someone else's incomplete list of conventions (which often happens in papers). If you absolutely need to check between sources, scour the paper for their conventions, email the author's if necessary, and go back to the basics to see how the differences in conventions propagates through the fundamental formulas.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: vanhees71

Similar threads

  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K
  • · Replies 12 ·
Replies
12
Views
3K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
3K
  • · Replies 31 ·
2
Replies
31
Views
5K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 33 ·
2
Replies
33
Views
7K
  • · Replies 52 ·
2
Replies
52
Views
7K
  • · Replies 0 ·
Replies
0
Views
1K